I have seen many comments saying that lemmy.world sucks, and sh.itjust.works is good. I have seen that lemmy.world apparently has a very poor reputation among other instances. Why? After a quick look, sh.itjust.works doesn’t look much different to me. Can anyone explain?
Edit: many good replies. the conclusion I’m drawing is that for my purposes it doesn’t really matter. I appreciate everyone who responded
.world is the instance where most new users default to so and it has the highest user base and that includes a lot of trolls or just bad faith actors. Also, a lot of .world is based from reddit users who left and they brought that kind of mindset along. Some people don’t like that either.
What does it matter which users are on which server, since we all get the same content anyways, aside from defederation?
We don’t, though. We get whatever content people on our chosen instance have subscribed to. Even without blanket server bans, there are Lemmy-based websites that your host has never heard of, hosting content you do not have access to. Someone from your server has to introduce those sites, and subscribe to the communities on those sites, for your server to have their content.
The fediverse is subscription based. Shit doesn’t get sent around unless it’s specifically asked for.
some instances pre-subscribe to new servers/communities across the verse using bots to ‘pre-load’ the /all/new for new users to be able to see locally to subscribe to
https://moist.catsweat.com/all/newest
They still need to know about the servers, though. There’s no centralized index of servers. If you set up a lemmy-based website today, and you do nothing to make contact with the rest of the network, the network’s not going to find out about you.
There’s no home to phone to.
There’s no canonical whole that we all have access to.
Check out https://lemmyverse.net/
thats kind of on the admins though.
definitely a pitfall for users joining a shitty instance
Being subscription based is what makes it feasible for smaller instances to exist on the fediverse. If every instance had to be a full mirror of the network only a few small groups could afford to host instances.
It also points to what the best use of a federated content sharing network is, and it’s not “create something that looks like it has unfettered access to some canonical whole”. It’s small networks of users with related interests having the majority of their discussions with each other, while also being able to pull content from other interest groups they may be interested in.
Like, a… to re-use a random example I pulled out of my ass in some other thread… Mazda enthusiast forum, where most people are talking about their Mazdas, but also one person’s really into the New York Yankees, and another also cares about their Dodge truck. The usage case is 80% local discussion, 20% off-site.
The currently attempted model is “everything is general interest, and you have to search for your niche, and it could be anywhere”, because that’s how it works on Twitter, or even on Reddit (subreddit squatting, subreddit splits, and early millennial internet humour come to mind). But it’s all being done to disguise what the fediverse is, and make it look like what already exists, rather than trying to usher in something different. And it just… can’t compete that way.
it really doesn’t. those that make it about server handles are the reason movements fail, like get over yourself, ppl! hexbear came @ me pretty hard for my instance. fuck em.
hexbear is true garbage.
It doesn’t, except for the ones who like to browse local. And the .world admins have quite a few blocked instances. They seem to be a bit too liberal in defederating to my tastes. I feel as if it runs against the concept of federation itself.
The people in the early days of Fediverse who came up with cringey and misleading fediverse admins made a lot of claims that weren’t true. Like that here no one can censor (moderate) you and that it’s a freeze peach bastion. Both of these are not true at all. ActivityPub federation isn’t about no rules, freedom of speech, or lack of censoring. It’s about sites and services cooperating and inter-operating. Freedom of speech isn’t a goal of the fediverse, (alt-right trolls, transphobes, extremists need to be banned to have healthy communities) nor is it about not being able to be moderated. It is about websites to be able to cooperate and interoperate and share their content automatically with each others users.
If you wanted something for free speech and un-governability this isn’t it. You’re probably better off on Nostr. Until you realize how awful that actually is (even EH realized that hence why hilariouschaos.com exists).
So, you believe that operating a website using Lemmy obligates you to host content from other sites that you don’t want to have a relationship with?
Because the concept of ‘federation’ does not come with the expectation that you abandon editorial control over what you host. That’s an expectation you’re projecting on it.
No one is obligated to do anything. The admins run the site and they can moderate how they feel. As a user, I can join their site or another one if I choose to.
My opinion of defederating is that it should only be used as a last resort. Taking a liberal approach to defederation means that a small amount of bad faith actors can completely shut down an instance and make it a pariah on the fediverse.
I think that having a choice about what instance you join and whether it’s liberal or conserative about defederating is the beauty of federation. someone might want to be on an instance that’s quick on the trigger about banning for transphobia, racism, etc, because they’re going through some shit in their lives, and later want to experience the greater variety of an instance where banning takes more consideration.
Like, I think you’re right about what you want for you, but people wanting different things and being able to get it is pretty great.
I agree, it’s a useful feature for certain people. I’m just not a big fan of site admins making the decision for you. It should only be used as a last resort IMO or to protect yourself against illegal content, CP for example. Normalizing defederation between instances can be abused by a small amount of bad faith actors. If you as a person don’t like a certain culture on an instance or community, just block it yourself.