You really don’t understand the term genocide, then. Or you’re just ignoring its real definition and using it incorrectly to legitimize a warped point of view that has no merit otherwise. But, then that’s all that’s been done recently. Fuck history; let’s all learn from fiction.
On 26 January 2024, the ICJ said that it was plausible that Israel had breached the Genocide Convention. As an emergency measure, it ordered Israel ensure that its army refrained from genocidal acts against Palestinians.
The ICJ reported, as part of its decisions in March and May, that the situation in Gaza had deteriorated and that Israel had failed to abide by its order in January.
So, when we look at the actions taken, the dropping of thousands and thousands of bombs in a couple of days, including phosphorus bombs, as we heard, on one of the most densely populated areas around the world, together with these proclamations of intent, this indeed constitutes genocidal killing, which is the first act, according to the convention, of genocide. And Israel, I must say, is also perpetrating act number two and three — that is, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and creating condition designed to bring about the destruction of the group by cutting off water, food, supply of energy, bombing hospitals, ordering the fast evictions of hospitals, which the World Health Organization has declared to be, quote, “a death sentence.” So, we’re seeing the combination of genocidal acts with special intent. This is indeed a textbook case of genocide.
More than 800 scholars of international law and genocide have signed a public statement arguing that the Israeli military may be committing genocidal acts against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as the total siege and relentless airstrikes continue to inflict devastation on the occupied territory.
An independent United Nations expert warned Monday that “Israel’s genocidal violence risks leaking out of Gaza and into the occupied Palestinian territory as a whole” as Western governments, corporations, and other institutions keep up their support for the Israeli military, which stands accused of grave war crimes in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.
Our documentation encompasses over 500 incitements of violence and genocidal incitement, appearing in the forms of social media posts, television interviews, and official statements from Israeli politicians, army personnel, journalists, and other influential personalities.
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
@Yantantethera@feddit.uk is definitively correct, as the UN and other anthropological experts agree.
Palestinians have been and still are suffering a genocide at the hands of the Israeli military policy of the IDF and Netanyahu.
The term genocide was assigned to the israeli-Palestinian “conflict” years ago by the UN as a progression of the Israeli apartheid system, and has been recently reaffirmed for those who were unsure (https://press.un.org/en/2024/gapal1473.doc.htm) since it’s more obvious since last year than ever that the Palestinian people and their culture are being deliberately erased from their homeland on ethnic, cultural and national bases.
Neutral point here but what is the policy if a hypothetical tribe being genocided away was itself genocidal? How do you balance those interests in a humane, stablizing way?
the previous relevant comments refer not to a debate of policy, to be clear, simply a matter of fact.
in the context of this thread, the answer to your first question is: you have two genocidal tribes.
as for the second, I don’t have nearly enough information about your two theoretical tribes to offer an answer. how large are the two tribes? how are their genocides being perpetrated? why? where are the two tribes located, specifically and in relation to each other? are the two tribes related somehow? Why would you try to balance the interests of genocidal tribes instead of thwarting genocide? Why is it your responsibility to balance their interests? do you have the capability to balance their interests?
“There’s nothing that would change your view anyway.”
evidence does.
Israel is and has been extrajudicially killing Palestinian citizens for half a century, and especially now are specifically eradicating their ethnicity, culture, and nationality.
Israel is trying to erase the Palestinian state according to the definition of genocide.
“politics aren’t all about truth”
this explains your confusion.
you’re openly admitting that you’re using lies to spread a false narrative.
I don’t see your end game, but it is a sensible admission.
When I stated that politics are not all about truth, I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians. Maybe you should read it again to understand it. And now that you’ve been intellectually dishonest I’ll say have a good day. You’re very much a victim of propaganda.
This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing, which is central to Zionism. Israel has no right to do any of those things. The only real solution is a regime change to a One-State Solution with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians.
Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction
that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
If you’re just learning that politicians don’t always tell the truth, you should avoid doling out political advice for a while.
Jesus nobody said I was just learning this. Where did I say that? Nowhere.
At this point I’m certain you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write, just waiting to write more. You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation and therefore a total waste of my time. Have a good day, troll.
I’m reading all of your vague irrelevant implications, they’re just completely immaterial to what we’re talking about.
they don’t matter, so I don’t care.
“You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation”
your claim is that Israel is not committing a genocide according to the definition of genocide.
you have no evidence to support your claim.
according to the definition of genocide, Israel is committing genocide against Palestine right now systematically persecuting their ethnicity, culture and nationality.
you have no rebuttal to the genocide and you have no evidence for your false claim.
“not a people”, oh that’s all right then, nothing to see here, please ignore the murder of tens of thousands of human beings, because, and I quote “they are not a people”.
Sure. Because that’s happening. You trust what you read and hear too easily.
I have hundreds of cousins several generations worth living in Israel since before 1900 when it wasn’t even Israel yet. I have a straight line to what actually goes on there.
You don’t quite know that most of what you read is bullshit unfortunately. And yes I have a bias I’m Jewish, but I also abhor violence. The thing is, I’ve lived there and I know what really happens.
What you call a poor innocent is 99% of the time a terrorist who has committed acts of mass violence.
The problem is they’re never going to stop, and they’ve been offered so so much. Equality in every way. Multiple times.
They demand absolutely everything or they will not acquiesce. But go ahead tell me how you solve THAT conundrum? Yeah that’s what I thought. There is NO solution. And so the world wants to paint a picture to get you to think of Israel as the aggressor because you know why? They’re terrified of the Arabs and not of the Israelis. And they’d rather take down the ones who will fall easier.
Go ahead keep thinking what you do. You’re not the first and won’t be the last to be a sucker for world politics and the fabricated reality you are given to believe.
You know what? Seek the truth on your own; a stranger online ain’t gonna convince you of shit. I just hope you’ll do a little research on your own not trusting just what you hear from news sources. I have more family history in the region than you can imagine and you’ve been fed a banquet of lies - I’m sorry. You and millions of others.
And Israel has not always handled everything perfectly. They’re in a scenario where there’s no gentle solution. The Arabs place their military installations in residential zones among the civilians - think about who does that kind of thing? They use civilian deaths as pawns for political image… Israel has always tried to keep those casualties to the minimum. Unlike the U.S.A. who nuked two countries flat.
What would you do?? A “people” whose military and civilians alike (no not all) suicide bomb cafes and buses and libraries etc. for DECADES. They turn down EVERY reasonable offer for peace treaty. They want EVERYTHING. 🎵“From the river to the sea”🎶 they sing; that’s the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. The East and west borders of Israel. They want all.
Those same said civilians were recorded on video dancing and celebrating on 9/11 when their Arab compatriots attacked America.
And so… how would you approach this? Just keep begging for peace while they adamantly refuse every offer short of total ownership of all and everything?
The new ultra left stance is cowardice. I’m a democrat and cannot stand the right wing; but the far left have become soggy rags. They’re terrified of the Arabs and blaming Jews is comfortable. It’s familiar. It’s always the acceptable last resort. Denial is easier than facing an unstoppable enemy unless you are willing to recognize that peace isn’t in their vocabulary.
No it’s not because the “Palestinians” are not a people. It’s an invented term to give them, collectively, an identity. They’re all just people whose families remained after Israel was formed.
Are you aware of the geography of the region? Arab Muslims have the entire Middle East pretty much; yet they can’t rest until they also get to have 100% of this little country the size of Vermont? The Jewish people were nearly wiped out in the Holocaust - that was an attempted genocide and they slaughtered 6 million. And so Israel was made so the Jewish people could always have a safe haven. And yet after being under constant attack from every which way ever since, when they decide to take serious action to put an end to decades of terrorists murdering them…. it’s genocide?
Please stop drinking the ultra liberal kool aide because you’re being lied to. And this is coming from a Democrat myself. Everyone seems to just forget every act of mass slaughter the Arabs commit on Israel, and they weep for these poor people oh boohoo. I’m well aware there are civilian casualties and that’s awful - even though these are the same civilians who danced in the streets and celebrated when the World Trade Center was destroyed in a terrorist attack murder on 9/11.
Jeez it sometimes just mystifies me how so many people can be so abjectly idiotic because they are just plain cowards or have been thoroughly brainwashed.
Your view is the wrong side my friend. You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Most likely not your fault though.
You really don’t understand the term genocide, then. Or you’re just ignoring its real definition and using it incorrectly to legitimize a warped point of view that has no merit otherwise. But, then that’s all that’s been done recently. Fuck history; let’s all learn from fiction.
deleted by creator
It’s a genocide
Genocide
Others: AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC
Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Lavender
Where’s Daddy
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
You are wrong.
@Yantantethera@feddit.uk is definitively correct, as the UN and other anthropological experts agree.
Palestinians have been and still are suffering a genocide at the hands of the Israeli military policy of the IDF and Netanyahu.
The term genocide was assigned to the israeli-Palestinian “conflict” years ago by the UN as a progression of the Israeli apartheid system, and has been recently reaffirmed for those who were unsure (https://press.un.org/en/2024/gapal1473.doc.htm) since it’s more obvious since last year than ever that the Palestinian people and their culture are being deliberately erased from their homeland on ethnic, cultural and national bases.
Neutral point here but what is the policy if a hypothetical tribe being genocided away was itself genocidal? How do you balance those interests in a humane, stablizing way?
entirely depends on the situation.
the previous relevant comments refer not to a debate of policy, to be clear, simply a matter of fact.
in the context of this thread, the answer to your first question is: you have two genocidal tribes.
as for the second, I don’t have nearly enough information about your two theoretical tribes to offer an answer. how large are the two tribes? how are their genocides being perpetrated? why? where are the two tribes located, specifically and in relation to each other? are the two tribes related somehow? Why would you try to balance the interests of genocidal tribes instead of thwarting genocide? Why is it your responsibility to balance their interests? do you have the capability to balance their interests?
Believe what you want to. There’s nothing that would change your view anyway.
Also pssst here’s a secret: politics aren’t all about truth SSHHHHHH don’t tell anyone!!!
“Believe what you want to.”
facts and definitons aren’t based on belief.
“There’s nothing that would change your view anyway.”
evidence does.
Israel is and has been extrajudicially killing Palestinian citizens for half a century, and especially now are specifically eradicating their ethnicity, culture, and nationality.
Israel is trying to erase the Palestinian state according to the definition of genocide.
“politics aren’t all about truth”
this explains your confusion.
you’re openly admitting that you’re using lies to spread a false narrative.
I don’t see your end game, but it is a sensible admission.
You’ve been duped and you don’t know it.
When I stated that politics are not all about truth, I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians. Maybe you should read it again to understand it. And now that you’ve been intellectually dishonest I’ll say have a good day. You’re very much a victim of propaganda.
This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing, which is central to Zionism. Israel has no right to do any of those things. The only real solution is a regime change to a One-State Solution with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians.
Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism
Settlements and Occupation
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
Apartheid Evidence
Amnesty Report
Human Rights Watch Report
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
Historian Works on the History
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
“You’ve been duped and you don’t know it.”
more vague fabrications?
not as convincing as you hope.
“I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians.”
my evidence is from credible news sources with long-term reliability, not politicians, which you put too much stock in.
If you’re just learning that politicians don’t always tell the truth, you should avoid doling out political advice for a while.
“You’re very much a victim of propaganda.”
oh, more vague insults without any evidence?
look at that.
instead of making things up, try to address the points I’ve made.
you know, the very clear definition of genocide being perpetrated by Israel, going back half a century?
The actual relevant material in this thread.
you can continue making stuff up and sounding clueless, but exposing your ignorance isn’t doing you any favors so far.
Jesus nobody said I was just learning this. Where did I say that? Nowhere.
At this point I’m certain you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write, just waiting to write more. You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation and therefore a total waste of my time. Have a good day, troll.
FYI you argue in terrible faith
“you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write”
I’m reading all of your vague irrelevant implications, they’re just completely immaterial to what we’re talking about.
they don’t matter, so I don’t care.
“You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation”
your claim is that Israel is not committing a genocide according to the definition of genocide.
you have no evidence to support your claim.
according to the definition of genocide, Israel is committing genocide against Palestine right now systematically persecuting their ethnicity, culture and nationality.
you have no rebuttal to the genocide and you have no evidence for your false claim.
“Have a good day”
done and done.
“not a people”, oh that’s all right then, nothing to see here, please ignore the murder of tens of thousands of human beings, because, and I quote “they are not a people”.
…give your head a wobble.
”A people” ≠ ”people”
As for the rest, you will believe what you want anyway.
What word should I use for the murder of 10s of thousands of ethnically and locally connected people Andrew.
Sure. Because that’s happening. You trust what you read and hear too easily.
I have hundreds of cousins several generations worth living in Israel since before 1900 when it wasn’t even Israel yet. I have a straight line to what actually goes on there.
You don’t quite know that most of what you read is bullshit unfortunately. And yes I have a bias I’m Jewish, but I also abhor violence. The thing is, I’ve lived there and I know what really happens.
What you call a poor innocent is 99% of the time a terrorist who has committed acts of mass violence.
The problem is they’re never going to stop, and they’ve been offered so so much. Equality in every way. Multiple times.
They demand absolutely everything or they will not acquiesce. But go ahead tell me how you solve THAT conundrum? Yeah that’s what I thought. There is NO solution. And so the world wants to paint a picture to get you to think of Israel as the aggressor because you know why? They’re terrified of the Arabs and not of the Israelis. And they’d rather take down the ones who will fall easier.
Go ahead keep thinking what you do. You’re not the first and won’t be the last to be a sucker for world politics and the fabricated reality you are given to believe.
You know what? Seek the truth on your own; a stranger online ain’t gonna convince you of shit. I just hope you’ll do a little research on your own not trusting just what you hear from news sources. I have more family history in the region than you can imagine and you’ve been fed a banquet of lies - I’m sorry. You and millions of others.
And Israel has not always handled everything perfectly. They’re in a scenario where there’s no gentle solution. The Arabs place their military installations in residential zones among the civilians - think about who does that kind of thing? They use civilian deaths as pawns for political image… Israel has always tried to keep those casualties to the minimum. Unlike the U.S.A. who nuked two countries flat.
What would you do?? A “people” whose military and civilians alike (no not all) suicide bomb cafes and buses and libraries etc. for DECADES. They turn down EVERY reasonable offer for peace treaty. They want EVERYTHING. 🎵“From the river to the sea”🎶 they sing; that’s the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. The East and west borders of Israel. They want all.
Those same said civilians were recorded on video dancing and celebrating on 9/11 when their Arab compatriots attacked America.
And so… how would you approach this? Just keep begging for peace while they adamantly refuse every offer short of total ownership of all and everything?
The new ultra left stance is cowardice. I’m a democrat and cannot stand the right wing; but the far left have become soggy rags. They’re terrified of the Arabs and blaming Jews is comfortable. It’s familiar. It’s always the acceptable last resort. Denial is easier than facing an unstoppable enemy unless you are willing to recognize that peace isn’t in their vocabulary.
You believe the media fed to your cousins by their government…
…why will Israel not let the BBC into Gaza
…why are they killing people.
Stop the killing. It’s a simple fucking thing to do.
Just stop.
Wow. You’ll just say anything to avoid learning that you’ve been wrong. Good luck with that.
When does one start counting the deaths of a genocide? Do we wait until the last member of a group of people has been killed?
Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages
genocide noun
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Looks like exactly what is happening.
No it’s not because the “Palestinians” are not a people. It’s an invented term to give them, collectively, an identity. They’re all just people whose families remained after Israel was formed.
Are you aware of the geography of the region? Arab Muslims have the entire Middle East pretty much; yet they can’t rest until they also get to have 100% of this little country the size of Vermont? The Jewish people were nearly wiped out in the Holocaust - that was an attempted genocide and they slaughtered 6 million. And so Israel was made so the Jewish people could always have a safe haven. And yet after being under constant attack from every which way ever since, when they decide to take serious action to put an end to decades of terrorists murdering them…. it’s genocide?
Please stop drinking the ultra liberal kool aide because you’re being lied to. And this is coming from a Democrat myself. Everyone seems to just forget every act of mass slaughter the Arabs commit on Israel, and they weep for these poor people oh boohoo. I’m well aware there are civilian casualties and that’s awful - even though these are the same civilians who danced in the streets and celebrated when the World Trade Center was destroyed in a terrorist attack murder on 9/11.
Jeez it sometimes just mystifies me how so many people can be so abjectly idiotic because they are just plain cowards or have been thoroughly brainwashed.
Your view is the wrong side my friend. You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Most likely not your fault though.
You’re funny
The word you’re looking for is aware.
And there’s nothing funny about any of this. You’re very innocent like a child should be.