• OBJECTION!
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    2 months ago

    This has so completely disappeared from discourse over the past four years. I remember when it used to be that “building the wall” was stupid at best and bigoted at worst. But now, it’s all, “Of course we agree that we need a strong border, but we’re the ones who will actually do it, Trump’s all talk.”

    It’s always the Republicans that get to set which values and goals the country persues, while the Democrats just run on pragmatism and efficiency. It’s like they’re allergic to making moral claims.

      • stupidcasey@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Oh, oh no, no no no no no, No. this isn’t a one party system, this is something far worse, this is what comes exactly right before a one party system. That is a two radicalized polarized adversarial party system. One must go but neither will leave willingly, there is more concentration of money and power in these two parties than possibly any other group on earth and maybe through out all history, make no mistake the only thing that will hold the country back from civil war is the Bomb, and that is only a maybe.

        We might not quite be that bad yet but all the peaces are in place and adversarial moves are already being made.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        it’s really not one party.

        To be clear we have one party, that is effectively fascist, and another party that is, center left/right and very moderate.

          • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            well yes, people are the one species with money, so that does apply. (yes it’s a rich people meme i know, that is a big problem)

            If we’re breaking it down this significantly there is no politics, merely the human hierarchical structure of control.

            • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              no politics, merely the human hierarchical structure of control.

              I’d love to hear the perspective where this makes sense.

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                2 months ago

                the animal kingdom.

                Animals fight and kill eachother over territorial disputes regularly.

                Humans have done this since the beginning of human society. Technology arguably only exists as an extension of being able to kill other people more effectively. Politics is just a mechanism for directing and organizing the effectiveness of modern human society in order to best defend it’s values and resources.

                TL;DR given the ability to influence and control things, humans (or animals) will take the opportunity to do so. Everything around you is just an extension of this ability.

    • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      An important party of governing is listening to constituents. They border is the second highest concern of voters (behind the economy) and an overwhelming majority want stricter border controls. Being a good public servant involves listening to the public.

      • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        So, the Democrats don’t listen to the majority of voters when they want free education, Medicare for All, or an arms embargo on Israel, but when it comes to stricter border controls, they’re all ears for some reason.

        • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 months ago

          but when it comes to stricter border controls, they’re all ears for some reason.

          well there’s a really obvious reason for this one.

          Currently the border asylum processing chain is incredibly swamped, up the point of multiple years of backlog, which is why temporary status citizens are a thing. Though not to the same degree as the UK. The whole point behind border control and immigration policy is to fix this problem, actually push the asylum cases for these people through, and get them real citizenship (or not, and get rid of them, that’s how it works.)

          This is arguably a human rights issue.

          So, the Democrats don’t listen to the majority of voters when they want free education,

          we have free state education, primary education only though. Republicans want to get rid of this, i don’t think you’ll see kamala harris saying she doesn’t want it. Though free secondary education is obviously the implication here, i figure it’s worth pointing out.

          Medicare for All

          biden has done numerous things for healthcare in his term. Same for obama, though again, not universal socialized healthcare, so not really the implication but it’s worth noting.

          or an arms embargo on Israel

          i’m not going to talk much about this because i keep getting banned over these topics for some reason. But idk how much popular support there is for this one, i haven’t looked at polling, i wouldn’t be surprised if it was a popular position though. That very well might be the case, however if you’re asking why the US is supporting Israel, the answer is that it’s militarily strategic. That’s the unfortunate but real answer there.

      • OBJECTION!
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        2 months ago

        Which polls show an “overwhelming majority” want stricter borders? Source please.

        Tbh I expect that some people are more hawkish on the border now than before because the Democrats switched tacts, and not the other way around, but regardless I haven’t seen any evidence that shows what you’re claiming.

      • alcoholicorn
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        2 months ago

        The libs who now support republican policies from 2016 only changed their tune when the democrats started endorsing those policies and their media started telling them they were good actually.

        They will believe what MSNBC tells them to believe.

        I watched the same thing happen in real time during 2020 when “give police more training” become “defund the police” became “fund the police” in like 3 months, and under Obama when he expanded Bush’s wars in the middle east and legitimized spying, things I thought everyone except the republicans agreed were bad.