L’année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l’idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.
Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l’expérience de quelqu’un qui rejoint le fediverse via l’instance jlai.lu.
Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l’expérience Lemmy.
Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc… je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d’à peine d’un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l’encontre de l’état d’esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.
Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l’année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu’ils ne sont pas francophone et que j’aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d’une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c’est trop.
Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l’idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu’il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.
The U.N. does not believe there was a genocide in Xinjiang:
Obviously there is room for criticizing China here – credible allegations of torture, ill-treatment, and discrimination should be taken seriously and stopped if those allegations are substantiated. But credible allegations of this nature are on another planet from irrefutable proof of an actual genocide, like we’re seeing in Gaza. The actual report does not describe even allegations of genocide and does not use the word itself.
Why do you disbelieve the U.N. here?
I don’t know about other countries, but I could link to 100 U.S.-based articles in the past few years fearmongering about China. Trump railed against China even before Covid, Covid spawned all sorts of anti-Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theories, Biden made a big deal out of having the military shoot down a Chinese weather balloon that strayed over the U.S., etc.
China is an enormous economic competitor with nukes that is also communist. It is very much a target of the U.S. empire.
Are you for real?
Did you read the report you linked? Is your argument truly that it’s ok because the word genocide was not employed and it’s just sparkly ethnic cleansing and crime against humanity?
This is not even talking about the forced erasure of the Uyghur by “importation” of Hans chinese in the province and forced marriage that, once again, was known and criticized even by the Soviets since the 50’s.
Yeah, and that’s achieving what exactly? For an alleged ML you’re kind of ignoring the material view of this.
That serves absolutely no purpose for the US, the Xinjiang region provides half of the materials needed for electronics in the world, on which the US economy and power heavily relies on.
“communist” yeah right lol, their flag is red I guess yeah
It’s not even really a target for the US empire since they decided to offshore all their production there. They’re entirely dependent on them, and financing Chinese economical imperialism in Africa and South America indirectly.
Did you? It contains zero allegations of ethnic cleansing, either.
Torturing prisoners – something the vast majority of countries that imprison people do – is a crime against humanity, but there’s a vast gulf between that and genocide. And that’s setting aside the difference between a credible accusation (what the U.N. found in China) and a mountain of irrefutable evidence (what we have in Gaza).
To analogize, you’re basically treating a credible accusation of assault as equivalent to being caught on camera committing multiple homicides. Not the same crime, not the same amount of evidence.
You’re just flat-out wrong, there’s not even any arguing it. Here’s a mountain of fearmongering about China, anyway. I’ll also refer you to the recent presidential and VP debates.
Imagine resorting to moral relativism and legalism to defend crimes against humanity.
Worst than shitlibs and fascists loving centroids.
Fuck all the way off. You’re making up shit and getting mad at it because you can’t address my actual point.
I said:
The point is that allegations about mistreating prisoners =/= concrete evidence of genocide.
No, I’m pointing out that in the report you’ve decided to forget that it was speaking about the systemic way of treating the local muslim population as subpar humans and breaching their fundamental freedoms on a daily basis, while, and once again you “forgot” to respond to it, leading a program of culture erasure since the 50’s and the Xinjiang independence was in the name of “stability” and “war on terror” since the 90’s, using official language change, customs erasure and legislation, while also limiting far more the reproduction rights of the Uyghurs compared to the Hans settlers.
This shit is known, once again, since the 50’s, and was documented and reported far before China was considered an economical threat or even a developing nation. Once again, it was such a point of contention between the USSR and the CCP that it lead to multiple wars in the region, documented by the chinese, the ussr, and “the west”. At this point, this is willful ignorance.
You consistently “forgetting” about the history of the region, minimizing the human rights violation when it’s made by bootwearers with a red flag, and turning millions in “re-education” camps as “just a few individual acts of torture on prisoners”, just shows that you just don’t give a fuck and that you’re just here for the contrarian aesthetic. The simple fact that the UN, which is in big part an organization used to justify and excuse colonialism has to call this shit “crime against humanity” is telling. The meekest of all international organisation cannot even excuse this without it looking like too much bootlicking.
You’d be born 10 years earlier, you would have been radicalized on 4chan instead and would be “ironically” shitposting about holocaust denial and saying shit like “no bro I swear this wasn’t a genocide, Hitler wanted to build a jewish paradise on Madagascar, the camps were just temporary work camps and they had to let jews die because the Allies broke the supply lines”. You’d be using the same rhetoric to minimize the actions of yet another authoritarian regime dabbling in ethnic cleansing, but since today being a nazi is too mainstream, the new flavor of boot to lick is chinese.
I’m old enough to remember irl tankies, and you’re still all the same and will rather side with fascists whenever your limited view of what the left and even communism is is challenged.
You’re an authoritarian LARPing as a leftist.
You keep rambling on source-free while not addressing anything I said.
This is how you “base your worldview on international organizations” yet wind up ignoring those organizations when they don’t back up your atrocity propaganda.
Aren’t you rambling ?
Lmao no, you’re bothering the wrong person
You not getting the point is not me not addressing what you said. Me not giving an history lesson on the Xinjiang region history to you when you can find accounts from all sides online for free, is not rambling, it’s just not engaging with the sealioning of the latest brand of redfash.
No, they do. One of them “only” speaks of crime against humanity so it’s the one you decided represented the truth. I’m sure you’re using the same logic with Palestine and Israel, right?
You can just stop here with the common auth rhetoric, you’re a bootlicker, coming from a bootlicker instance, that has erected double standards as an olympic level sport. Anything that goes against your fairy tale must be propaganda, everything that agrees with it is truth. Any contradictor is a counter-revolutionary/liberal/fascist, and I swear after this last purge we’ll achieve communism bro.
No I swear bro, this is not genocide if it does not come from the genocide region in France, otherwise it’s just sparkling crime against humanity.
That’s literally the hasbara playbook to deny genociding the palestinians lol. If it weren’t so sad, it would be funny.
I asked you why you are right and the U.N. is wrong. You’ve refused to answer that. You’ve also refused to provide any examples of a reputable international organization that disagrees with the U.N.
All you’ve done is lie about what the U.N. report says, pretend you don’t understand the difference between genocide and mistreatment of prisoners, and hit your “bootlicker” and “red fash” quotas for the day.