The worst part is it’s not that far fetched, we’re actually pretty lucky that valve isn’t massively predatory and we didn’t end up with bobby kotick instead of gaben
This is true, but it’s not the only factor. Staying private allows a company to not be predatory, but it definitely does not guarantee it - it simply allows the executives to choose. It’s the combination of Valve being private and Gaben always staying true to his values despite his incredible wealth that gave us Steam in its current form.
I’ve known plenty of private companies that were as shitty as a public one, or more. Quality executives are vanishingly rare, particularly at this level of company value.
… and they could put an end to the black market for skins and the gambling at anytime, but refuse to do so. This would get rid of the account stealing mostly too.
Not to mention that Valve had to be forced to follow consumer laws in some countries by expensive lawsuits.
It was also Valve who started the “you do not own your games” shite, by forcing the connection of licences to an account and a gaming client, which got rid of the ability to resell your games or to have at least the game’s installer offline available.
I’ll never get why Valve always gets a pass. Would it be worse if Steam was owned by Epic / Tencent / Activision …, no doubt, but that doesn’t make it great.
If someone want to give praise I would point to GOG. Not perfect but at least I own my licence to the point that I can install my games from an installer I have archived on my HDD (no deleting the game, no forced updates, no adding MTX at a later time, no taking away licenced music), I can go to earlier versions of Early Access games if they change it for the worse and more.
And valve tried to push the paid mods shit, too bad people forget too quickly. Not saying valve is straight up bad, but they aren’t your friends either
Modding has always been motivated by passion, not everything needs to be connected to money in this world, the capitalistic idea that only money can motivate people to do things sucks.
You don’t pay people because it’s the only motivator. You pay people because you need money to survive in this world. If we don’t, then the only people who can afford to spend time making mods are those who are already have their basic needs taken care of through other means.
I would like to see a world where anyone with the passion for modding can make mods.
Go see what paid mods does to the modding scene in FF14 and think again. (spoiler: Its drama, people stealing assets and trying to monetize it, piracy, people paying for mods that stop working when the game updates and getting no refunds, etc)
So is all art, should artists all work for free? Why do I have to pay for books and movies? Aren’t the authors motivated by passion?
Isn’t your argument the same one used by corporations underpaying game devs all the time, “since they should be happy fulfilling their passion”?
the capitalistic idea that only money can motivate people to do things sucks.
Agree, and I wish we lived in an utopia where nobody needs money and everyone can share their work freely. Sadly, this is not the world we live in, and so we need to reward passionate people to let them dedicate time to their passion rather than having to only focus on work for survival. That way not only rich people can afford to make mods.
You mention the world is not an utopia and on the same breath explains how we should make it even worse. I come from a third world country and as a kid most people could only afford one maybe two games, all my friends bought half-life and warcraft 3, can you guess why?
By your logic we should also make libraries paid and charge for all FOSS too, yes, lets put a price on everything! What an utopia this will lead to!
Wow, you managed to completely reverse what I said.
By your logic we should also make libraries paid, […] lets put a price on everything
That doesn’t follow at all. Books are not free, and yet libraries work just fine. By my logic we should allow book authors to charge for their books. Oh right, we already do. Why do you not like that?
I didn’t mention having to charge for anything at all, even mods. I think mod authors should be allowed to charge for them if they choose to, just like for anyone else making anything else.
and charge for all FOSS too
What a great example of my point. Charging for software is allowed, and yet there is lots of software released for free. Seems it’s not that bad after all?
What an utopia this will lead to!
Quite the opposite. Good thing I don’t share your ideas.
I come from a third world country and as a kid most people could only afford one maybe two games, all my friends bought half-life and warcraft 3
So you were fine with paying foreign corporations for these games, but you are not fine paying the kid down the street for his mod? Why do these well-off corporations deserve your money, but the modder who actually needs the money doesn’t?
You do know that this whole comment chain was started by Valve trying to push paid mods with the help of Bethesda right? Just making sure because all your points make no sense in this context.
So you were fine with paying foreign corporations for these games, but you are not fine paying the kid down the street for his mod? Why do these well-off corporations deserve your money, but the modder who actually needs the money doesn’t?
Before I start here, “kid down the street” really? Are you creating the image of a fictional modder to attract pity? Arent you gonna add that he has a dying mother that needs surgery or something?
But to answer the question, I have no issues paying ‘the kid down the street’ for mods, Im not sure if they were kids but I did donate to quite a few modders by now, would do so again.
Now back to the context: https://www.polygon.com/2015/4/27/8505513/bethesda-skyrim-paid-mods-valve-steam (source)
So lets see, 30% goes to Steam, 45% goes to Bethesda and whats left to the “modder who actually needs the money” is… 25% yep. Since I answered my question would you answer mine too? Are you okay with paying foreign corporations to exploit the work of the “kid down the street”, keeping the vast majority of the profit?
Before you start typing ‘but other companies wouldn’t charge so much from the modder!’, a few reminders: you said this isnt an utopia, Steam always charges 30%, always has always will, whatever other company that works with steam for paid mods will take their share too. Best case scenario that company takes 20% and the modder will get 50% (which they also have to pay taxes on ofc).
I didn’t mention having to charge for anything at all, even mods. I think mod authors should be allowed to charge for them if they choose to, just like for anyone else making anything else.
Paid mods is basically “having to charge”. If you WANT to pay for mods I really need to ask, what is stopping you? If you actually care about the modders getting money, many of them have ko-fi/patreon platforms where they actually keep most of the money you give them, some of them take commissions even. Heck, Nexus Mods, largest mod distribution website, allows donations directly to the modders. There is nothing stopping you from paying for mods, now that Im an adult with a job I do pay for them often.
I guess because I never played TF2 back then my experience of games having predatory gambling mechanics was mobile games with the f2p and low costs pushing towards different ways to monetize. Seemed inevitable once mobile gaming exploded and makes up a larger portion of revenue than PC and console gaming making other companies want to copy it.
The worst part is it’s not that far fetched, we’re actually pretty lucky that valve isn’t massively predatory and we didn’t end up with bobby kotick instead of gaben
The reason Valve is not massively predatory is because they aren’t publicly traded and remain a private company.
We got lucky.
This is true, but it’s not the only factor. Staying private allows a company to not be predatory, but it definitely does not guarantee it - it simply allows the executives to choose. It’s the combination of Valve being private and Gaben always staying true to his values despite his incredible wealth that gave us Steam in its current form.
I’ve known plenty of private companies that were as shitty as a public one, or more. Quality executives are vanishingly rare, particularly at this level of company value.
I’m incredibly wary of what will happen if/when he retires or dies. I hope they have some sort of iron clad succession plan in place.
Public companies can choose that too, they’re just mostly run by horrible people.
The entire gambling lootboxes were massively popularized by Valve, turning Team Fortress 2 from pay2play to predatory gambling.
… and they could put an end to the black market for skins and the gambling at anytime, but refuse to do so. This would get rid of the account stealing mostly too.
Not to mention that Valve had to be forced to follow consumer laws in some countries by expensive lawsuits.
It was also Valve who started the “you do not own your games” shite, by forcing the connection of licences to an account and a gaming client, which got rid of the ability to resell your games or to have at least the game’s installer offline available.
I’ll never get why Valve always gets a pass. Would it be worse if Steam was owned by Epic / Tencent / Activision …, no doubt, but that doesn’t make it great.
If someone want to give praise I would point to GOG. Not perfect but at least I own my licence to the point that I can install my games from an installer I have archived on my HDD (no deleting the game, no forced updates, no adding MTX at a later time, no taking away licenced music), I can go to earlier versions of Early Access games if they change it for the worse and more.
And valve tried to push the paid mods shit, too bad people forget too quickly. Not saying valve is straight up bad, but they aren’t your friends either
Why are you against mod creators getting paid for their work? Some mods are amazing and definitely deserve some money.
The store shouldn’t get a cut though. But if that’s what you mean, let’s call that out specifically.
Modding has always been motivated by passion, not everything needs to be connected to money in this world, the capitalistic idea that only money can motivate people to do things sucks.
You don’t pay people because it’s the only motivator. You pay people because you need money to survive in this world. If we don’t, then the only people who can afford to spend time making mods are those who are already have their basic needs taken care of through other means.
I would like to see a world where anyone with the passion for modding can make mods.
Go see what paid mods does to the modding scene in FF14 and think again. (spoiler: Its drama, people stealing assets and trying to monetize it, piracy, people paying for mods that stop working when the game updates and getting no refunds, etc)
So is all art, should artists all work for free? Why do I have to pay for books and movies? Aren’t the authors motivated by passion? Isn’t your argument the same one used by corporations underpaying game devs all the time, “since they should be happy fulfilling their passion”?
Agree, and I wish we lived in an utopia where nobody needs money and everyone can share their work freely. Sadly, this is not the world we live in, and so we need to reward passionate people to let them dedicate time to their passion rather than having to only focus on work for survival. That way not only rich people can afford to make mods.
You mention the world is not an utopia and on the same breath explains how we should make it even worse. I come from a third world country and as a kid most people could only afford one maybe two games, all my friends bought half-life and warcraft 3, can you guess why?
By your logic we should also make libraries paid and charge for all FOSS too, yes, lets put a price on everything! What an utopia this will lead to!
Wow, you managed to completely reverse what I said.
That doesn’t follow at all. Books are not free, and yet libraries work just fine. By my logic we should allow book authors to charge for their books. Oh right, we already do. Why do you not like that?
I didn’t mention having to charge for anything at all, even mods. I think mod authors should be allowed to charge for them if they choose to, just like for anyone else making anything else.
What a great example of my point. Charging for software is allowed, and yet there is lots of software released for free. Seems it’s not that bad after all?
Quite the opposite. Good thing I don’t share your ideas.
So you were fine with paying foreign corporations for these games, but you are not fine paying the kid down the street for his mod? Why do these well-off corporations deserve your money, but the modder who actually needs the money doesn’t?
You do know that this whole comment chain was started by Valve trying to push paid mods with the help of Bethesda right? Just making sure because all your points make no sense in this context.
Before I start here, “kid down the street” really? Are you creating the image of a fictional modder to attract pity? Arent you gonna add that he has a dying mother that needs surgery or something?
But to answer the question, I have no issues paying ‘the kid down the street’ for mods, Im not sure if they were kids but I did donate to quite a few modders by now, would do so again.
Now back to the context: https://www.polygon.com/2015/4/27/8505513/bethesda-skyrim-paid-mods-valve-steam (source)
So lets see, 30% goes to Steam, 45% goes to Bethesda and whats left to the “modder who actually needs the money” is… 25% yep. Since I answered my question would you answer mine too? Are you okay with paying foreign corporations to exploit the work of the “kid down the street”, keeping the vast majority of the profit?
Before you start typing ‘but other companies wouldn’t charge so much from the modder!’, a few reminders: you said this isnt an utopia, Steam always charges 30%, always has always will, whatever other company that works with steam for paid mods will take their share too. Best case scenario that company takes 20% and the modder will get 50% (which they also have to pay taxes on ofc).
Paid mods is basically “having to charge”. If you WANT to pay for mods I really need to ask, what is stopping you? If you actually care about the modders getting money, many of them have ko-fi/patreon platforms where they actually keep most of the money you give them, some of them take commissions even. Heck, Nexus Mods, largest mod distribution website, allows donations directly to the modders. There is nothing stopping you from paying for mods, now that Im an adult with a job I do pay for them often.
Plenty of large mods have crowd funding to support them.
I guess because I never played TF2 back then my experience of games having predatory gambling mechanics was mobile games with the f2p and low costs pushing towards different ways to monetize. Seemed inevitable once mobile gaming exploded and makes up a larger portion of revenue than PC and console gaming making other companies want to copy it.