Donald Trump continues to suck up to the Russian president.
If Ukraine were to suddenly surrender to Russia, everything would be “much better,” at least according to Donald Trump.
During an afternoon press conference Wednesday, the Republican presidential nominee urged the Eastern European nation to submit to the foreign power, claiming that any deal, no matter how dismal for Ukraine’s freedom, would have been better than the current state of affairs.
“Ukraine is gone. It’s not Ukraine anymore. You can never replace those cities and towns, and you can never replace the dead people, so many dead people,” Trump said. “Any deal, even the worst deal, would have been better than what we have right now.
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This was his strategy in Afghanistan too!
Arguably that was always going to end with a Taliban takeover, but we could’ve done that without giving them a leg up.
If only we’d continued our brutal occupation of Afghanistan another 20 years, maybe the regime would’ve lasted another two weeks after we left.
Y’all are completely hopeless, enjoy your forever wars.
Are people like this just incapable of grasping nuance? I can only definitively speak for myself, but I’m pretty sure nobody here wants forever wars (maybe there are some dumb tankies that think they want it)
We all wanted out of Afghanistan, we just would prefer to have, you know, an actual plan.
But you know that already, don’t you? Or are you actually that ignorant?
And what would that plan have looked like, exactly? How do you pull out of the country, watch the inevitable collapse of the regime you spent 20 years building, and hand the county over to your enemies without it being messy and getting egg on your face?
It was inevitable that things would play out the way they did, and it needed to happen. Biden made the call and accepted the fallout for a completely necessary and good decision that everyone had been calling for for years. And yet, rather than taking credit for it, y’all want to try to shift it over to Trump! That’s insane to me.
Did I ever claim to be a fucking expert on military operations? I don’t fucking know what that plan would look like. That doesn’t mean I’m ok with how it went down.
It was absolutely not inevitable that it went down that way… Do you already forget how bad that shit was?
That’s a completely ridiculous stance. You have no alternative whatsoever to what happened, and as I pointed out, it was always going to be messy because it represented 20 years of total failure, but you’re criticizing it… why? Because the news told you to? The same news that lied us into the wars in the first place?
I didn’t forget how bad the pullout was, I just also didn’t forget how bad the occupation was. Ending the war deserves enough props to outweigh any mistakes made in the pullout.
I, someone who has no experience with military tactics whatsoever, personally, have no alternative and that means there must be no alternative.
I appreciate how much credit you’re giving me here… but no. Don’t be obtuse.
I know you’re smarter than that.
What I said is that you have no alternative, which you just agreed with.
So that returns to my question - if you’re not aware of any alternative, you have zero solutions to what could’ve been done differently, even with the benefit of hindsight, then what, exactly, has led you to make this criticism? Because the news told you to, the same news that told all sorts of lies to justify the wars?
Jesus Christ do I need to do everything for you?
I’m not an expert, so I don’t need to provide an alternative, nor would I ever be expected to.
So instead of just making some shit up and then choosing to believe it, I’d rather take a look at what people who are actually experts might say about whether or not we could have done better…
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/politics/state-deparment-afghanistan-withdrawal-report/index.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/top-us-generals-testifying-congress-chaos-withdrawal-afghanistan/story?id=108281065
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/03/19/congress/pushing-back-afghan-withdrawal-milley-biden-mckenzie-00147797
Oh hey look, even our own government agrees with me that we could have done better. They made a whole report about it: https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/State-AAR-AFG.pdf
This was Donald Trump’s “plan,” carried out by the Biden Administration (who were put in a shitty position that required them to adhere to the existing “plan”). Biden administration isn’t blameless, but this is absolutely on Trump.
It’s honestly pretty fucking weird that you are so adamant about this specific thing. I’m kind of curious as to why?
Either go full imperialist and take over the country, making it a US territory, or never bother in the first place.
That’s…not a plan for exit.
I mean, I generally agree but this is a flippant, bad answer.
How about just “never bother in the first place?”
No, we should’ve left shortly after killing Bin Laden.
If we had pulled out then, the regime we were propping up would instantly collapse and the withdrawal would’ve been messy and y’all would be criticizing Obama for pulling out the exact same way you’re criticizing the pullout the way it actually played out, because it was always going to play out the same way.
Criticism >>>> More American soldiers dying in a pointless war
Mike Gravel said it best:
That quote directly contradicts you criticizing the stance of giving up on Afghanistan. I should be the one quoting it at you. I cannot make any sense of your position whatsoever.
Not giving up, tipping the scales to favor a terrorist organization. His “deal” gave the Taliban greater legitimacy, bolstered their numbers, and probably gave them all a good laugh as we held up our end and they almost immediately violated the agreement.
So what? We got out, so it was a success. The Taliban were always going to take over, they didn’t get “legitimized” by making a deal with the US, they got legitimized by winning the war. And so what if they did? Afghanistan is officially Not Our Problem.