Rooki is a science denier - confirmed.

Unfortunately, running or managing a Lemmy instance doesn’t come with requirements to read science.

It’s so genuinely distressing to me that such an absurd comment got nearly even upvotes and downvotes. I swear that the average carnist is so far in denial that they’ll upvote even the most insane, goalpost-moving non-arguments to preserve the industry-brainwashed fantasy they live in where vegans are at any given time a gram of protein away from collapsing like a cartoon skeleton. You absolutely know that if a plant-based diet had been in that headline as being positively correlated with T2D (it isn’t, as shown above) instead of meat, Rooki’s response wouldn’t have been “well geez we’re all going to die anyway so why does it matter?” And if it was (at which point, good on them for consistency, I guess?), it would’ve been a 25-to-1 downvote ratio with omnis and vegans alike piling on and mocking it.

This reminds me of theoretical physicist Angela Collier talking about crackpots who send her their rebuttals to general relativity etc., analogizing them to someone walking into a restaurant, calling the head chef a fraud who can’t cook, saying their food is much better, and presenting the chef with a takeout box full of Play Doh to eat as proof. That is to say that it’s not even just an incorrect counterargument; it’s so asinine that it’s a complete non sequitur not even rising to a counterargument. Can LW really add peer-reviewed scientific information as a requirement to their ToS when this is who’s evaluating its merits?

I went to down vote them. But I already did 😅

You’re 100% correct. I started with a format that made sense for a few articles, and then when it snowballed, I had too much tunnel vision to see it was a problem. It should hopefully be better now.

Maybe don’t come into a vegan community then if it makes your cognitive dissonance hurt

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And here is the full quote:

There are multiple benefits of a vegan or vegetarian diet in the management of CKD: (1) Intake of animal fat is associated with albuminuria, and other components related to meat such as choline and carnitine are converted by gut flora into trimethylamine and trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO) that are associated with atherosclerosis and renal fibrosis.10 (2) Vegan dieting leads to a decreased acid load, whereas ingestion of animal-based foods increases acidogenesis and ammonia production, and this favorable alkalization of vegan diet may have additional effects beyond what would be provided by mere intake of sodium bicarbonate.11 (3) There is less absorbable phosphorus in plant-based protein given the preponderance of indigestible phytate as the main source of phosphorus and given that fresh fruits or vegetables are less likely to have added phosphorus-based preservatives that are often used for meat processing.12,13 (4) Higher dietary fiber intake, in addition to a favorable modulation of advanced glycation end products,14 enhances gastrointestinal motility and lowers the likelihood of constipation, which is a likely contributor to hyperkalemia. (5) A vegan diet based on fresh fruits and vegetables lessen the likelihood of exposure to potassium-based additives.15,16 (6) There are potentially favorable impacts on the gut microbiome leading to lower generation of uremic toxins such as indoxyl sulfate, p-cresol sulfate, TMAO, and other unfavorable substances.17 TMAO is not only elevated as a consequence of renal insufficiency but also likely contributes to the progression of CKD and the risk of mortality in patients with CKD.18 There are other benefits from a higher intake of plant-based protein, such as lowering the likelihood of kidney stones and decreased risk of cardiovascular disease due to higher intake of natural antioxidants including carotenoids, tocopherols, and ascorbic acid.19

Fixed! I totally forgot to escape the parens in the URL.

You can tag people like this: @TheTechnician27@lemmy.world

You might as well say modern men are men by every scientific definition (and subsequently evolved to be able to dominate women). Regardless if that’s true, that doesn’t mean that men inherently need to dominate women. Just like omnivorous humans don’t inherently need to dominate non-human animals. They can choose to be respectful and ethical instead since we’re moral agents capable of rising beyond our basal, animalistic instincts and even our evolutionarily-programmed nature. We’re also able to make more rational and informed choices about what benefits ourselves, other animals, and the planet the most, regardless of what’s natural. Natural doesn’t automatically equal better, in a lot of cases it’s worse. This (your argument) is just an appeal to nature fallacy.

To be clear, us being omnivores means we’ve evolved to be able to eat from plant- or animal-based (as well as fungal, algal, etc) sources. That doesn’t mean we need to eat all of them, we’re capable of surviving on either, and evidence shows we actually thrive on a plant-based diet. It’s also worth acknowledging that we originally evolved from frugivorous herbivores before we started hunting animals (yes, really), and our bodies, while they have developed some omnivorous adaptations, are still closer to that of herbivores than carnivores and lean more towards the herbivorous side even compared to most other omnivores. But that’s mostly irrelevant to what we’re actually able to do, what we’re shown to be healthiest (and most longevous/long-lived) when doing today, what’s most ethical, sustainable, etc. Just some food for thought.

“Milk” is the one that surprises me the most, simply because I believe plant milk trounces dairy milk in basically every aspect except price (which is in my experience improving but exists due to massive subsidies toward the dairy industry that plant milk doesn’t ever receive, not its own intrinsic merits. Even just taking the subsidies away would reverse this, and if the subsidies flipped, the difference would be enormous). You definitely can live without it, and it’s even a lot better in most respects.

• The nutritional profile of plant milk is generally better. Wheras it lacks the ~8g of protein per ~250 mL that typical dairy milk has (you can get versions fortified with 8g protein, though, if you want), it makes up for it by being free of sugar (if you get unsweetened) compared to the typical 8–12g of lactose; having no lactose which can ferment in people with intolerance (plenty of people only realize they were intolerant after they stop drinking milk and no longer feel symptomatic); having substantially fewer calories; and having no or extremely minimal saturated fat and cholesterol (the fats plant milks do tend to have are very healthy mono- and polyunsaturated ones). Almond milk – by far the most common – has considerably more calcium (~35–45% compared to ~20–30%) and Vitamin D (~35% compared with ~20–25%) per serving than dairy milk. Whereas dairy milk is fortified with Vitamin D3, plant milk is fortified with D2; the mechanism for metabolizing the calcium is less efficient in D2 than D3, so this difference is offset to some extent. Oat milk more closely aligns with typical dairy milk calcium and Vitamin D contents, so it’s slightly less nutritious than dairy milk in this respect. Plant milk is generally also fortified with micronutrients such as Vitamins A, B2, and B12 to meet or exceed what dairy milk typically contains. That 8g of protein can easily be made up for elsewhere, as you only need around 0.8g per day per kilogram that you weigh (around 55g in a 70kg adult).
• Plant milk takes months to go bad, whereas dairy milk that hasn’t been ultrapasteurized (at which point it becomes as expensive as or even more expensive than plant milk and often still has a somewhat shorter shelf life) maybe lasts two weeks from the date of purchase. This means that you can easily stockpile it between sales (I often keep around 15L) and it won’t go bad.
• Plant milk has an absolute ton of variety. There’s almond, soy, coconut, oat, cashew, rice, peanut, macadamia, pea, banana, pumpkin seed, pistachio (this one’s one of the wildest beverages I’ve ever seen; it’s like $10 a liter lmao), etc. You can make any of these at home and even fortify it with relative ease and for pretty cheap if you’re so inclined, although it’s not my preferred choice just because I like the consistent experience that grocery store milk offers. Within these categories, pretty much all of them have sweetened, unsweetened, chocolate, vanilla, and vanilla unsweetened, while the main ones like almond and oat milk tend to have much more exotic varieties like banana, matcha, pumpkin spice, nog, hot chocolate, and extra creamy. And even then, different brands will offer different experiences. The only one that’s absent is strawberry, and it vexes me to this day. You can make it on your own, but I have never in my life seen a single strawberry plant milk sold in a grocery store. Do I like strawberry milk? No. Do I think it’s weird that I’ve never seen a company experiment with it? Absolutely. So I guess if you specifically can’t live without grocery store strawberry milk, you can ignore this entire point. Get on it, plant milk companies.
• Every type of plant milk is better in every conceivable way for the environment.
• Every type of plant milk is better in every conceivable way for animal welfare.
• Completely subjective, but dairy milk has this weird, slightly sour taste that I never liked growing up that makes plant-based milks taste so much more clean and refreshing to me.

You might be healthy now but evidence shows you would be at more risk of health issues, diseases etc, and mortality risk, especially later in life, than if you ate a plant based diet, and have worse health-and-life expectancy.

Additionally, you’re contributing to some of the worst environmental practices harming our planet and causing climate change.

Finally, the abuses of animals in other industries beyond meat production, not only are usually still contributing to the killing of animals for meat indirectly since animals are used for overlapping purposes, but are horrifically cruel in their own ways too.

Please watch this: Dairy Is Scary

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