I will say this, why are any of us placing so much focus (and for some, outrage) on some very niche groups of terminally online leftists, when there’s been a very scary rise of fascism worldwide, especially in Europe and US, that is currently getting worse? I can guarantee you this new wave of fascism enjoys far more popular support than Marxist-Leninists have, or ever have in western countries. Seems like worrying over the mosquito that’s biting your arm while there’s a polar bear mauling the other side of your body
there is a single post about lemmygrad among a multitude of news articles about said rise of fascism, i dont really know why youre seemingly under the impression that people are complaining about tankies instead of fascism
it sounds like youre suggesting that folks should just shelve any issues with problematic groups while fascisms about, which sounds like a terrible idea even if fascism wasnt an ever present danger
also, those fascists do not have a serious presence on this platform compared to lemmygrad, it shouldnt be surprising that folks will discuss the toxic behaviour of an instance when its as big a part of the fediverse’ userbase as lemmygrad. the only one even remotely comparable is exploding-heads, which definitely gets at least as much hate
(Before anyone tries the “but tankies support fascism” gotcha, you should know actual Marxist-Leninists outside of these terminally online spaces do not support the current Russian imperial oligarchy, maybe people should also get informed about the concept of critical support, which is still very debatable)
but were specifically talking about the marxists on these terminally online spaces that support the current russian imperial oligarchy
ignoring that lemmygrad only ever accepts the concept of critical support when it comes to their support of inhumane regimes, its also just not particularly applicable when its their tendency to defend specifically those inhumane practices that people are disagreeing with
If you check the front page semi-regularly I’m sure you will have seen there’s a constant influx, to put it lightly, of memes complaining nonstop about Lemmygrad, tankies, tankie ideology and so on. I’m far from a very active user and I’ve been able to notice.
Sure, there are news articles being posted about fascism, but an equal response? Don’t be disingenuous. Where are all the memes about rising fascism? All the same outrage in the comments? The response is far from symmetrical.
were specifically talking about the marxists on these terminally online spaces that support the current russian imperial oligarchy.
Are we though? Cause most of the posts and comments seem to be addressing tankies as a whole. Not recognizing that these two are being used interchangeably to mean one and the same would be arguing in bad faith.
And implying Lemmygrad is an accurate representation of the current geopolitical positions of Marxist-Leninist communities in real life is laughable at best and a purposefully disingenuous strawman at worst.
i dont think repeatedly accusing me of being disingenuous, arguing in bad faith or putting up straw-men is warranted, and it doesnt really give me the idea that youre actually interested in good faith arguments
it feels exactly like reddit-style toxicity, and i dont think its fair to respond with that when i dont see that sort of thing in my comment
moving on
If you check the front page semi-regularly I’m sure you will have seen there’s a constant influx, to put it lightly, of memes complaining nonstop about Lemmygrad, tankies, tankie ideology and so on. I’m far from a very active user and I’ve been able to notice.
Sure, there are news articles being posted about fascism, but an equal response? Don’t be disingenuous. Where are all the memes about rising fascism? All the same outrage in the comments? The response is far from symmetrical.
i looked through the most upvoted posts this week, about a dozen pages down, and couldnt actually find a single post complaining about lemmygrad. maybe it was there, i sure didnt see it. i did see memes about jordan peterson fear mongering about socialism, transphobes being petty morons, cops being murderers, and the cia assassinating journalists
i also saw constant posting about the rise of fascism in the usa, constant posts about especially GOP fuckery, a couple support posts from folks who were worried about a family member or themselves getting fascist content suggested to them, a post about an instance admin getting raided by the fbi for their involvement in a protest etc, all with significant outrage or support in the comments depending on whether it was fascists getting away with shit or fascists getting hurt
just to reiterate, there might have been a post complaining about lemmygrad in those twelve pages, but i doubt i missed more than that
it doesnt seem at all like folks are spending more effort complaining about tankies than fascists, and the way youre describing this site is so far removed from my experience with it that im entirely convinced its just specific to Kbin
Are we though? Cause most of the posts and comments seem to be addressing tankies as a whole. Not recognizing that these two are being used interchangeably to mean one and the same would be arguing in bad faith.
we are specifically talking about tankies, which are hard-line marxists who shamelessly support inhumane regimes, on lemmygrad, a terminally online space which usually supports the current russian imperialist oligarchy
i dont know what ‘these two’ is referring to, unless you mean ‘tankie’ and ‘marxist who supports inhumane regimes’
in which case yes, theyre used interchangeably because thats what tankie means
if someone says ‘tankie’ to refer to marxists in general theyre the weird one
And implying Lemmygrad is an accurate representation of the current geopolitical positions of Marxist-Leninist communities in real life is laughable at best and a purposefully disingenuous strawman at worst.
im at a complete loss at how you took any of that from my comment, and i genuinely dont know how to respond to this or address it because I dont know what its responding to
i dont think repeatedly accusing me of being disingenuous, arguing in bad faith or putting up straw-men is warranted, and it doesnt really give me the idea that youre actually interested in good faith arguments
it feels exactly like reddit-style toxicity, and i dont think its fair to respond with that when i dont see that sort of thing in my comment
If that’s your take from my comment then I won’t be the one telling you you’re wrong but the language I used tried to specifically avoid this. For example, “Don’t be disingenuous” “to do x would be arguing in bad faith” “to imply x is purposefully disingenuous at worst” all avoid directly accusatory language like “You are being disingenuous” “You’re arguing in bad faith” and so on.
Maybe the difference between the two wasn’t conveyed clearly enough and that’s my mistake.
As a side note, I’m not actually interested in arguments, either good or bad faith. I think I made that clear with my first comment (Yet here I am, I know right)
it doesnt seem at all like folks are spending more effort complaining about tankies than fascists, and the way youre describing this site is so far removed from my experience with it that im entirely convinced its just specific to Kbin
That’s why my first comments were always referred as being my personal experience (I didn’t bother to keep repeating “IME”). Two persons can have totally different experiences and interact with very different kinds of posts in an organic way, and that’s valid.
Although I will say several people have replied to my previous comment stating they’ve had similar experiences regarding finding lots of anti-tankie memes and circlejerking, not that it adds much validity to my personal experience and opinions, but it means it’s not just me or that I came up with it.
I don’t really know how much of it is limited to Kbin since that’s as far as my interaction with the Fediverse currently goes.
we are specifically talking about tankies, which are hard-line marxists who shamelessly support inhumane regimes, on lemmygrad, a terminally online space which usually supports the current russian imperialist oligarchy
You are using the flawed logic of “all Lemmygraders are tankies ergo all tankies are Lemmygraders”. Like I said before, most of the posts and comments are addressing tankies as a whole, and using the term interchangeably with the people on Lemmygrad to mean one and the same. Maybe you aren’t consciously doing it (I don’t think you are), maybe you just want to discuss the specifics of the Lemmygrad community, which I’m not interested in at all. But you have to recognize this is being done and that it effectively thwarts any attempts at honest and civil discussion, it further muddies the waters.
Because I take no interest whatsoever in Lemmygrad and Lemmygrad-related discussion, but I’m quite bothered and annoyed at the posts calling out and complaining about tankies, most of the time referring to the Lemmygrad people with that name. And like I said, others and I have run into posts like this.
I’m at a complete loss at how you took any of that from my comment, and i genuinely dont know how to respond to this or address it because I dont know what its responding to
I’m kinda baffled at how you could not see the conflation of the terms tankie and Lemmygrader, I’m gonna insist in that this is not a direct accusation (“Implying x would be y“) or something that I took from your comment. But rather a reality that must be acknowledged because it is happening and it is being done, and it effectively affects any and all kind of attempts at discussion in a negative way. (Are we mad about Lemmygrad, or are we mad about tankies? The difference is quite important)
I feel like we are not going to reach common ground in that last point so all that is left is for me to wish you a nice day.
i appreciate the elaboration and am sorry for interpreting your comment as accusatory as i did
i agree that that were probably not gonna reach common ground, or at least there seems to be such a disconnect communication wise that the amount of effort isnt really worth it for an internet discussion
there is a single post about lemmygrad among a multitude of news articles about said rise of fascism, i dont really know why youre seemingly under the impression that people are complaining about tankies instead of fascism
it sounds like youre suggesting that folks should just shelve any issues with problematic groups while fascisms about, which sounds like a terrible idea even if fascism wasnt an ever present danger
also, those fascists do not have a serious presence on this platform compared to lemmygrad, it shouldnt be surprising that folks will discuss the toxic behaviour of an instance when its as big a part of the fediverse’ userbase as lemmygrad. the only one even remotely comparable is exploding-heads, which definitely gets at least as much hate
but were specifically talking about the marxists on these terminally online spaces that support the current russian imperial oligarchy
ignoring that lemmygrad only ever accepts the concept of critical support when it comes to their support of inhumane regimes, its also just not particularly applicable when its their tendency to defend specifically those inhumane practices that people are disagreeing with
If you check the front page semi-regularly I’m sure you will have seen there’s a constant influx, to put it lightly, of memes complaining nonstop about Lemmygrad, tankies, tankie ideology and so on. I’m far from a very active user and I’ve been able to notice.
Sure, there are news articles being posted about fascism, but an equal response? Don’t be disingenuous. Where are all the memes about rising fascism? All the same outrage in the comments? The response is far from symmetrical.
Are we though? Cause most of the posts and comments seem to be addressing tankies as a whole. Not recognizing that these two are being used interchangeably to mean one and the same would be arguing in bad faith.
And implying Lemmygrad is an accurate representation of the current geopolitical positions of Marxist-Leninist communities in real life is laughable at best and a purposefully disingenuous strawman at worst.
i dont think repeatedly accusing me of being disingenuous, arguing in bad faith or putting up straw-men is warranted, and it doesnt really give me the idea that youre actually interested in good faith arguments
it feels exactly like reddit-style toxicity, and i dont think its fair to respond with that when i dont see that sort of thing in my comment
moving on
i looked through the most upvoted posts this week, about a dozen pages down, and couldnt actually find a single post complaining about lemmygrad. maybe it was there, i sure didnt see it. i did see memes about jordan peterson fear mongering about socialism, transphobes being petty morons, cops being murderers, and the cia assassinating journalists
i also saw constant posting about the rise of fascism in the usa, constant posts about especially GOP fuckery, a couple support posts from folks who were worried about a family member or themselves getting fascist content suggested to them, a post about an instance admin getting raided by the fbi for their involvement in a protest etc, all with significant outrage or support in the comments depending on whether it was fascists getting away with shit or fascists getting hurt
just to reiterate, there might have been a post complaining about lemmygrad in those twelve pages, but i doubt i missed more than that
it doesnt seem at all like folks are spending more effort complaining about tankies than fascists, and the way youre describing this site is so far removed from my experience with it that im entirely convinced its just specific to Kbin
we are specifically talking about tankies, which are hard-line marxists who shamelessly support inhumane regimes, on lemmygrad, a terminally online space which usually supports the current russian imperialist oligarchy
i dont know what ‘these two’ is referring to, unless you mean ‘tankie’ and ‘marxist who supports inhumane regimes’
in which case yes, theyre used interchangeably because thats what tankie means
if someone says ‘tankie’ to refer to marxists in general theyre the weird one
im at a complete loss at how you took any of that from my comment, and i genuinely dont know how to respond to this or address it because I dont know what its responding to
If that’s your take from my comment then I won’t be the one telling you you’re wrong but the language I used tried to specifically avoid this. For example, “Don’t be disingenuous” “to do x would be arguing in bad faith” “to imply x is purposefully disingenuous at worst” all avoid directly accusatory language like “You are being disingenuous” “You’re arguing in bad faith” and so on.
Maybe the difference between the two wasn’t conveyed clearly enough and that’s my mistake.
As a side note, I’m not actually interested in arguments, either good or bad faith. I think I made that clear with my first comment (Yet here I am, I know right)
That’s why my first comments were always referred as being my personal experience (I didn’t bother to keep repeating “IME”). Two persons can have totally different experiences and interact with very different kinds of posts in an organic way, and that’s valid.
Although I will say several people have replied to my previous comment stating they’ve had similar experiences regarding finding lots of anti-tankie memes and circlejerking, not that it adds much validity to my personal experience and opinions, but it means it’s not just me or that I came up with it.
I don’t really know how much of it is limited to Kbin since that’s as far as my interaction with the Fediverse currently goes.
You are using the flawed logic of “all Lemmygraders are tankies ergo all tankies are Lemmygraders”. Like I said before, most of the posts and comments are addressing tankies as a whole, and using the term interchangeably with the people on Lemmygrad to mean one and the same. Maybe you aren’t consciously doing it (I don’t think you are), maybe you just want to discuss the specifics of the Lemmygrad community, which I’m not interested in at all. But you have to recognize this is being done and that it effectively thwarts any attempts at honest and civil discussion, it further muddies the waters.
Because I take no interest whatsoever in Lemmygrad and Lemmygrad-related discussion, but I’m quite bothered and annoyed at the posts calling out and complaining about tankies, most of the time referring to the Lemmygrad people with that name. And like I said, others and I have run into posts like this.
I’m kinda baffled at how you could not see the conflation of the terms tankie and Lemmygrader, I’m gonna insist in that this is not a direct accusation (“Implying x would be y“) or something that I took from your comment. But rather a reality that must be acknowledged because it is happening and it is being done, and it effectively affects any and all kind of attempts at discussion in a negative way. (Are we mad about Lemmygrad, or are we mad about tankies? The difference is quite important)
I feel like we are not going to reach common ground in that last point so all that is left is for me to wish you a nice day.
i appreciate the elaboration and am sorry for interpreting your comment as accusatory as i did
i agree that that were probably not gonna reach common ground, or at least there seems to be such a disconnect communication wise that the amount of effort isnt really worth it for an internet discussion
have a good one