Voting is necessary, but not sufficient.
Vote Green.
The Greens only exist to aid the Republicans by pulling votes away from Democrats.
Yes, that is the Democrat propaganda, and you are parroting it very well.
Lmao, that’s how a FPTP system works, you dunce.
Since it’s so obvious, only someone against fair representation would be in favor of keeping FPTP.
Spoilering the Democrats is the only thing the Green party has ever accomplished.
glhf with that national turnout rate that historically follows the green party in literally ever nation in the world ever (except for locally)
At least PSL organizes between elections, green just pop up every 4 years and then vanishes
List-based voting first, otherwise you’re fighting voting math.
I would argue on necessary, but it’s probably less work to just do it.
voting without a coherent strategy, and voting for the fucking dems in a national race though; that’s clown shit.
Ah, it’s Mr. I didn’t pay attention in Civics class.
Nor the last couple decades of reality.
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a lib once compared it to the man/bear discourse from I think twitter a while back. the one that got all the idiot dudes super angry?
tried to say trump was the man, and we should vote for the lesser evil, joe biden, the bear.
I explained that she must’ve forgotten what that shit was about. trump was the bear.
Who is the man then?
So help me God if you say Biden
Whats the moral vote for?
I’ll wait while you type an exceedingly long reply that dodges the question completely.
your mom. only she gets to have it. it’s only about her. all hail yeetpics’ mother, first of her name!
Fascists always vote = fascists get what they want = idiots saying “voting doesn’t work”
pretty sure it;'s not the voting.
pretty sure it’s everything OTHER than the voting that gets them what they want. and the liberals refusing to let anyone stop them.
you’ll notice that even when a fascist loses an election, like in 2000, they still get their guy in office sometimes.
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or the fascists lose electoralism, and get the office anyway, because the left isn’t big enough to fight them and the libs are happy to just let them.
and yeah the weird gaslighting ratchet effect ‘im going to do the exact same thing the last guy did but libs are going to yell at you for not sucking my dick about it now’ is not cool
also, you know, when they do riots to get their way. sometimes in an election.
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This comment is the perfect example of why fascism has a habit of winning. Laziness from the populace. One election in one office is all you’re willing to commit. We voted one time in one election, why wasn’t that enough? One office wasn’t run by a fascist and that’s got to do it for the entire country for the rest of all time I guess. One vote is all you’re willing to commit. People who don’t understand fight against fascism is a lifetime of work are the people who deserve fascism. Beating fascism is about building a strong Democratic populace. About building a system and a society that respects the Democratic process. It takes decades and it has to be renewed constantly. Also wouldn’t be a bad idea to just go around hanging fascist every 30 or 50 years or so either, that’s also an option.
People don’t want to hear that! Sheesh!
But really. Some people think voting and protesting is the epitome off not being lazy about about it, but it’s the bare minimum.
You think ACAB? Be a cop and be the exception. You think the problem is higher up? Get involved in politics. You think it’s corporate? Get involved with ethical companies, and shun unethical ones.
You think you shouldn’t have to? That’s because you’ve gotten lazy. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it’s just easy to take advantage of - and if you don’t like the results of the laziness, eventually you’ll like them so little you’ll have to do something or die - and you’ll probably get motivated at that point.
This is a very privileged point of view
bro every complaint and problem in your life other than eating, drinking, and sleeping is literally a privileged problem.
Eating, drinking, and “sleeping” (shelter/safety) are significant hurdles for a large portion of the population
which is why those aren’t privileged takes :)
That’s a very psychologically weak take, and comes from the privilege of not having to take up these matters into your own hands, because our society had enough flexibility that you haven’t had to. …but that kind of weakness is pretty common these days, because people don’t have a lot to live for.
Regardless of whether you have a lot of power, personally, or whether you don’t have a lot of power, spending what you do have ethically and prudently matters a lot. Although many may not be able to make things better on their own, many have enough power that they will regret inaction later, when action becomes absolutely necessary, and no real preparation has been made.
In short: Call it privilege all you like, see where that gets you.
its like you ignored his comment and responded to something else entirely. weird stuff.
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I didn’t say you said it I said you were an example of it. Hell you just did it again, every 4 years you say. Exactly the issue. You people think it’s a one-time game. It’s not , it’s constant. It’s every Congressional race it’s every senate race it’s every state race it’s every School Board Race. The fight is unending. Also yeah some people deserve fascism, they’re called the people that sit on their ass and let it overwhelm them. People that aren’t willing to fight it are the ones who deserve it. Cuz they’re the ones that enable it more than anyone else.
I agree it takes groundwork, what kind of ground work is my question though. Real groundwork? The kind of groundwork that endorses democracy and respect for democracy? The kind of ground work that keeps progressively moving us away from fascism step by step? Yeah that’s the kind of ground work we need. That’s the kind of ground work you’re sitting here arguing against. Your groundwork is vote one time in one election and then turn your nose up at the entire process and sabotage anyone who wants to keep fighting. You all or nothing people are the problem. When you’re steering a nation it takes a long time for the rudder to move. It takes constant pressure to change course. That course change is going to take years and maybe even decades but you have to keep pushing on the rudder. If you never try you go where you were headed in the first place. That’s what your endorsing here. One brief nudge and then sitting on your ass. Doesn’t move anything.
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Yup. There it is. The path of fascism victory. Exactly what I’ve been saying. Thank you.
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What do you think about direct action?
How do you define Direct? I’m open to a very wide range of it whether it’s from going door to door all the way through throwing bombs into the carriage of a tsar. Action’s fantastic particularly at local level, in fact primarily at the local level. Up to and including Carriage routes.
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If you’re capable of implementing a structure that can actually stand, direct action may be warranted. If not, then not, unless violent anarchy is better.
Start small. Build your structure and run some group that way. …and expand.
Show us how, genius
why didn’t it work? Trump literally isn’t in office today. Unless we’re talking about jan 6th, but that’s an institutional problem, not a fascism problem.
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fascism isn’t when anything, fascism is literally just an authoritarian control structure powered by a chain of loyalty of unwavering support (hey wait a minute this sounds more like donald trump) further empowered through the use of violence to accomplish goals (hey wait a minute, this sounds more like donald trump also)
We are aiding a genocide, cracking down on protests against said genocide, demonizing immigrants, police reform hasn’t happened…how exactly did we defeat facsism?
literally none of the things you list here are fascism, also the police thing isn’t explicitly true, a lot of places did engage some level of de-policing, just to different levels. A lot places legalized weed, some places de-criminalized drug use, a lot of drug and low time offenders are getting light sentences.
The problem is institutional lag and inertia, you cannot simply delete an entire police force over night, you need to improve the community first, and then delete the police force, otherwise things become nightmarish. It would also help if the motto wasn’t literally “defund the police” because that was a pretty fucking stupid choice of words.
Once community starts to improve, and crime starts to drop, the police will naturally follow, taxpayers dont like funding unnecessary police force, and police departments prefer not to host extraneous expenses.
Well it sounds like you have the secret knowledge of how to eliminate fascism.
Put the keyboard away and show us…
genuinely surprised they even said “fascism is not when donald trump” even though donald trump is the most textbook fascist in the US right now, and then proceeded to talk about defunding the police lol.
wait, why are we holding liberals responsible? Shouldn’t we be holding the uh, fascists responsible? They’re the ones causing all the problems LMAO
wait, why are we holding liberals responsible?
You mean, apart from the fact that liberals cannot protect the status quo without violent fascists and therefore protects and enables fascism?
Apart from that?
You mean, apart from the fact that liberals cannot protect the status quo without violent fascists and therefore protects and enables fascism?
how the fuck do you expect liberals to protect the status quo against violence? With more violence? That seems counter intuitive, this is literally an impossible proposal here.
how the fuck do you expect liberals to protect the status quo against violence?
With fascists. That’s how, Clyde.
That seems counter intuitive, this is literally an impossible proposal here.
Don’t tell me it’s impossible. Tell it to the liberals who applauded Biden when he added more armed fascist goons to the streets when people were demanding he defund and/or abolish them.
Doesn’t seem that impossible to them, does it?
fighting fascism with fascism seems like a highly russian propaganda bot take to me, but what do i know.
Don’t tell me it’s impossible. Tell it to the liberals who applauded Biden when he added more armed fascist goons to the streets when people were demanding he defund and/or abolish them.
LMAO
fighting fascism with fascism
Good God but you are dense. Have you ever seen liberals oppose fascism in any way whatsoever? Why would they oppose the very thing that allows the liberal order to exist in the first place?
ok
Cut a Liberal and a Fascist bleeds.
really? Seems to me like if you cut a liberal a fascist would rise, but ok.
that’s a phrase from hexbear, it constitutes 90% of all messages ever posted there
it’s a phrase from the Black Panthers
idk who let the hexbear alts into this thread, but it is rife with people who should not be allowed to go outside for causing spontaneous extreme weather events with their sheer spite for the existence of the world.
You’d think so but turns out Liberals are voting for Genocide as long as it’s not them being Genocided.
who the fuck are they supposed to vote for? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. There is LITERALLY no way to win here, you are just a sad seething fuck with nothing better to do than shitting and pissing yourself when presented with one mildly annoying option, and a mildly less annoying option. Nothing is fucking perfect, humans don’t agree on anything, land rights are a fucking mess, the ONLY and i mean THE ONLY solution to this problem is literally war.
The best thing you can do is encourage people to vote for problems they’re passionate about, rather than sitting here trying to undermine the very fucking concepts that the western world is currently built upon and struggling to maintain.
No you can demand Democrats to stop the ceasefire and plunge them in the polls.
There is something you can do. and saying “vote democrat anyway” is undermining it.
and then you can wait for the republicans to win, because they literally do not care about the israel palestine war, and will simply fucking bomb the entire fucking thing within about 2 months.
But yeah no, it’s definitely the democrats that are the problem here.
Also i didn’t say vote democrat, i said vote period. So nice try i guess?
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Yeah, but simply not voting isn’t a solution. It’s a self-congratulatory exercise in washing your hands of responsibility. We all see this is the problem. It’s been the problem our entire lives. It’s clear as day for anyone with half a brain. So…what then?
Defeatist bullshit
Limitations of action from either side are entirely due to a lack of a strong majority in Congress. Without it, no matter the goals, the capabilities are limited. There are times I do really appreciate some of the checks congress has over the executive.
this meme plays out like the government is controlled by one party at a time
It really really isn’t when there are no consequences for filibustering and only one party does it. They can chokehold any decision indefinitely. I’m not even American and yet I know this, must be nice being that gullible and naive.
must be nice being that gullible and naive
I appreciate the personal attack
Oh btw, I appreciate the childish whining “but mom he said it in a mean way!!”. Keep crying, still doesn’t make you right lmfao.
Clowns who focus on form instead of content really make me laugh.
Yw!
Socialists do nothing -> Fascists receive no consequences -> Socialists do nothing -> Fascists seize power -> Socialists join the fascists and say it’s all the fault of the liberals.
Complain all you want about the liberals voting to prevent fascists from getting power, but they’re doing something while socialists do nothing except complain.
I’ll let you in on a little secret, many liberals are socialists that got tired of doing nothing. Voting in many successive elections to get the change you want over many decades is far more admirable than sitting on the sidelines complaining about the people that are making an effort.
This is where I’m at, admittedly. I see no substantial action from any alternative group. I can’t be the change I want to see because I’m not a leader. So given the options I have to choose one of them. I finally get the “lesser evil” shit. I used to think it was a cynical slogan meant to get people used to the idea of supporting heinous crimes, which it is, but it is also a genuine sentiment that holds some weight. I was blind to that before. The way I see it now, no matter my choice, evil will come, so I might as well cast my ballot for the one that is a ostensibly less evil. So I’ll begrudgingly vote for Harris because the rhetoric coming from the republicans is fucking terrifying, and JD Vance especially makes me feel very nervous. He’s exactly the type of slimy opportunistic creep that should be kept as far away from power as possible. At least it’s not Biden or Shapiro. C’est la vie.
Yeah. Mainly, find ways, wherever you are, to do right with the small amount of power you have. It matters.
Some of that is voting. Some of that is whatever political support you can manage. Some of it is just saying “that seems like a bad idea” when you’re in a meeting, or choosing a more ethical supplier if you’re at some company.
Always know that, no matter how small the power you hold seems, it matters.
every day make the best choices you can with the energy you have available. you may or may not win; you may or may not even make a difference; one day you may just need a fucking cheeseburger from macdonalds despite your usual moral misgivings… and that’s fine!
make choices to change the system, sure, but be aware of the direction you want and head in that direction… change is proactive; participants make the rules
Exactly.
Socialists join the fascists
What kind of ahistorical shit is this??
In every single case historically, from Germany to Italy to Spain to Indonesia to Chile to Brazil, liberals have always sided with fascists against socialists.
SA in Germany was led by and filled with socialists.
If you think the SA were socialist, do you also think the Democratic Kampuchea was democratic?
“First they came for the communists”, they were putting actual socialists in camps in 1933.
In 1919 , the SDP won the first elections, and proceeded to literally arm and direct the Freikorps against the socialists for the next decade or so.
And then supported the guy who made Hitler Chancellor in 1933.
Yeah and the Nazis killed off the socialists on the Night of the Long Knives when they were no longer useful to them.
I’m not claiming the Nazis were socialists. I’m saying it was a fascist movement that socialists joined. Fascism isn’t really an ideology, it’s mostly just a grift to gain power using emotional manipulation. Socialists have a weakness when it comes to people saying they’re going to completely change society, and a weakness towards anti-semitsm (because of the greedy capitalist jew trope) which can make socialists susceptible to fascist emotional manipulation. The Nazis weren’t called National Socialists because it was a socialist movement, it was called that to scam socialists into joining them. But once the socialists were no longer useful, Night of the Long Knives.
Instead of being in denial of this tendency, socialists should look at it head on so they can avoid these kinds of scenarios from happening again.
Those weren’t socialists any more than social democrats are socialists, just a different faction of fascists who wanted more scraps for their section of the working class at the expense of other sections of the working class.
The Night Of Long Knives was 6 years after the nazis started putting the KDP and SPD in camps.
a weakness towards anti-semitsm
The fuck? Antisemitism was punishable by death in the USSR at a time Britain was promoting zionism as a way to rid the country of jews and Henry Ford was making sure every one of his dealerships stocked The Dearborn Independent.
Liberals think negative effects of capitalism are caused by individuals failing to do capitalism correctly, so they’re easily duped by antisemites saying that it’s just <insert minority> at fault.
The core of socialism is understanding that those flaws are inherent to capitalism, so someone coming in and going “actually capitalism doesn’t tend towards crisis and your entire political program is wrong, it’s just the jews” isn’t very attractive.
Liberals think negative effects of capitalism are caused by individuals failing to do capitalism correctly, so they’re easily duped by antisemites saying that it’s just <insert minority> at fault.
Did you mean to write Libertarian there?
Generally liberals want regulation on corporations, maybe even a little trust-busting, and Keynesian economic policy. Which indicates they understand capitalism will fail without proper stewardship.
Typically the left uses liberal to include anyone who supports capitalism as it’s been used historically.
Keynesianism can kick the can down the road (ironically, trust-busting can speed it up by making the rate of profit fall faster), but it doesn’t fix the underlying issue. Antisemitism still pops up in social democracies due to the same mechanism.
Hey it’s ozma the Russian troll
The everyone I don’t like is Russian bit is old
I’m used to it by now. A lot of commenters don’t like me rocking the boat and just want people to fall in line without question.
Geeze i know, wouldn’t it just be better if no questioned your motives?
We are talking about a 1k+ meme poster here.
Thanks for the reminder. I’ll go add another meme.
Pretty sure the "hold liberals accountable " falls under the “do nothing about fascists” banner
“Oh, so you’d rather the fascist win?” I say, as I’m being dragged from the voting booth into the gas chamber.
This might have been a pattern before but the new dem party seems to be hitting harder and faster than in the past. Plus it’s hard to make change when ur not willing to do shady shit and ignore the essence of democracy and constitution
Schrodinger’s vote: your vote only matters if you don’t vote.
Aren’t we already having that negotiation right now about the Palestinians?
- There are two choices in the United States 2024 election. No third party stands a ghost of a chance of winning. No, not even if the 30,000 people you can reach on Lemmy all vote for Timothy Greenparty.
- A Trump victory in 2024 would not only be just as bad if not worse for the citizens of Gaza than Harris would, but also pose an existential threat to a large number of vulnerable Americans (trans people, immigrants, women seeking abortions).
- Given the margins of victory in 2016 and 2020, Kamala might not win if leftists don’t vote for her.
- Snoozing fascism for four years is better than inviting it through the door now, and buys us time to build our defenses for when it comes back.
I’d like to focus my counterargument. Which of these statements do you disagree with?
Unfortunately, you can’t vote away fascism. I think things might get a little rough soon regardless of which party wins.
It sounds like you disagree with statement 4. Is that right?
I don’t believe it’ll be snoozed.
Other people in this thread have already replied telling you why that’s wrong, so I don’t see why I should bother.
Ummm akshurally it’s called Fascism Lite™ and it’s totally different then Fascism, vote harder or you’re a Russian bot 🤓
