Or in other words which forces keep electrons in orbitals and prevent it from flying away or crashing into the nucleus according to modern understanding?

    • jadelord@discuss.tchncs.deOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      4 months ago

      The follow up question would be the opposing force which keeps them in orbit(als)? This balance of force was called the planetary model which has this shortcoming that electrons might fall into the nucleus.

      If electrons actually followed such a trajectory, all atoms would act is miniature broadcasting stations. Moreover, the radiated energy would come from the kinetic energy of the orbiting electron; as this energy gets radiated away, there is less centrifugal force to oppose the attractive force due to the nucleus. The electron would quickly fall into the nucleus, following a trajectory that became known as the “death spiral of the electron”. According to classical physics, no atom based on this model could exist for more than a brief fraction of a second.

      https://chem.libretexts.org/Courses/Northern_Alberta_Institute_of_Technology/CHEM1130_Principles_in_Chemistry_I/2%3A_Quantum_Mechanical_Picture_of_the_Atom/2.05%3A_The_Bohr_Atom

      I am trying to recall what kind of forces enable the orbitals of electrons according to Quantum Mechanics.

      • teft@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        4 months ago

        Here is an explanation from part of that site:

        https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Quantum_Mechanics/09._The_Hydrogen_Atom/Atomic_Theory/Why_atoms_do_not_Collapse

        Summed up best as:

        What this means is that within the tiny confines of the atom, the electron cannot really be regarded as a “particle” having a definite energy and location, so it is somewhat misleading to talk about the electron “falling into” the nucleus.

        • threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          4 months ago

          the electron cannot really be regarded as a “particle” having a definite energy and location, so it is somewhat misleading to talk about the electron “falling into” the nucleus

          Good way to put it. And if I recall correctly, electrons in “s” orbitals actually do spent a certain fraction of their time inside the nucleus.

      • Dave.@aussie.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        4 months ago

        As I understand it, it’s the quantum part of quantum mechanics.

        Electrons can only have fixed energy states, they can only radiate or accept fixed sized packets of energy - a “quantum” of energy. So an electron that is hit with the correct sized quantum of energy can be excited up to the next orbital, and it will emit the same sized packet of energy when it returns to its ground state. So they can’t gradually emit radiation and fall into the nucleus.

        Eventually electrons should spontaneously decay but that’s predicted to be in 10 to the power of 40 years or something like that.

          • AmalgamatedIllusions
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            3 months ago

            They are not expected to decay. The half-life they’re thinking of is a lower-bound based on current measurements, not an actual expected half-life.

          • Dave.@aussie.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            4 months ago

            I looked it up, after 6.6 x 10e28 years or so they are theorised to decay into neutrinos and photons.

              • AmalgamatedIllusions
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                3 months ago

                Charge conservation would indeed be violated, which is why this decay is not expected. Dave is mistaken: the half-life they’re referring to is an experimental lower-bound, not a actual expected value.

              • Dave.@aussie.zone
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                4 months ago

                Presumably there is a transformation of charge to energy which is then carried away by the photon, but all of this is beyond my understanding of the theories involved.

                • AmalgamatedIllusions
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  Charge conservation would unambiguously be violated, which is why this decay is not expected. The half-life you quote is an experimental lower-bound.

      • Bassman1805@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        4 months ago

        There’s kind of alot going on, but the shortest answer is “the electrostatic force between the positive nucleus and negative electron creates orbits in the same way that gravity allows a moon to orbit a planet”. The electron is moving fast enough that it just “misses” the nucleus. At least, from a classical lens.

        It gets more complicated when you introduce orbital angular momentum and start considering the magnetic effects of moving charges, and that’s what leads to the funky non-spherical orbital shapes.