There’s a difference between a federated identify and single-sign on. Your identity /u/mango_master@lemmy.world IS federated. You don’t need to have a separate login for each instance. You can use that identity to interact with any instance much the same way I am using my federated identity to currently respond to you.
Should be @mango_master if all is working correctly, actually ;)
The threadiverse is a bit complicated since there needs to be a way of distinguishing between users and groups, but the @user@host.org format is standardized across the fediverse.
It’s funny because using the /u/ format seems to work just fine in the web interface, creating the proper link. Typing it out in the @ format doesn’t automatically create the hyperlink when I type it, but yours works just fine. ¯\(ツ)/¯
I do not have the same experience. If I want to interact with a different instance then I have to login to that instance. Granted I’m very new to Lemmy but so far the apps are not quite there yet and exploring the fediverse is difficult. Searches are useless unless you know exactly what instance you need to find what you’re looking for.
I understand. It really comes down to your entry point. For example, as long as I’m viewing the community/user/content via my instance I can interact; e.g. I’m replying to a post on https://mylemmy.win/post/114914 ; you, on the other hand are replying to https://kbin.social/m/fediverse@lemmy.world/t/158389/why-can-t-we-have-federated-identity . Since we’re viewing from our own instances we can interact. If either of us goes directly to the canonical URL, https://lemmy.world/post/1194109 , we’d be forced to login. It’s all the same post, just different points of entry that muddy the user experience.
I think there’s a complex use case here which is a blend of the two (OP might not have been thinking about this, but I have) which I’ll call a “portable identity” but I mean portable more in the sense of high availability. From a problem statement point of view:
my workplace uses a network level filtering service which blocks things; for example, *.info is 100% blocked, newly registered domains less than 30 days old are blocked, sites which the filter has deemed unacceptable (firearms, nudity, etc.) are blocked and so forth. This block prevented me from reaching lemmy.world while on the work network, so I use(d) another instance while waiting on lemmy.world to registrar mature > 30 days - but what if this site had ended up being lemmy.info? I’d be SoL getting to it, ever, while at work
sites go down and struggle; lemmy.world went through a period there of intense growing pains and it ended up missing some federated content (posts and comments). This is not a dig against lemmy.world, it happens to any site - so “always have a backup plan” right now is having another login on another instance subscribed to the same content
while addressing (1) and (2) above, because my profile is “trapped” on a specific instance I lose access to saved items, comments and posts related to that account. So while site (a) is, say, down for maintenance or something and you roll over to site (b) you’ve lost your context. I do not expect lemmy/kbin instances to have any sort of complex or expensive HA in place to give me uptime, they are volunteers paying out of pocket and donations and doing us a service for free so my expectations are set accordingly to just have gratitude they even run
So I think there’s a problem here to solve which currently is partially solved by having multiple logins on different instances, but is better solved in some other fashion (a blend of federated identity and SSO). Of course “run your own instance” is one type of solution to this problem but is beyond the reach of every possible user (IMHO) so it’s not really the best solution. Something new we don’t have yet needs to be dreamed up…
edit: I forgot a 4th use case, what happens when two instances semi-defederate and you want to use both without losing content? the issue with beehaw and .world one-way-defederating means that if you wish to get the full experience of participating on news@beehaw.org and news@lemmy.world, you need to use a 3rd instance which federates with both (in both directions).
Gotcha. As others have already mentioned it is obtuse. If you end up at the post via your own instance it works but if someone links directly to the canonical post then you get confronted with needing to login. e.g. I see this post as https://mylemmy.win/post/114914, so I can interact just fine whereas if someone sent me the link to https://lemmy.world/post/1194109 (same post, different entry point) I’m stuck.
That should just work. You view the post on your own instance and reply there. That reponse trickles to the other instances.
It may take a while to propagate though. The paradigm is close to that of the ancient nntp news groups where responses travel at the speed of the server’s synchronisation. It may be tricky for rapid fire conversation, but works well for comments of articles.
Anybody who sees that link and is not already from someother.instan.ce now has to track down that post on their home instance in order to interact with it, which is a bad experience. It’s not the absolute worst thing in the world, like the home URL for the discussion we’re in right now is https://lemmy.world/post/1194109 and if you paste that URL into your local domain’s search it should find you the relevant discussion locally, but it still kinda sucks. In theory this would be sort of solve-able on the server end by having it search for any instance links behind the scenes and re-write other people’s links to point to the equivalent page on your own instance, but right now there’s no “nice” way to handle that situation.
Agreed on your point. We need a way to identify those links so that our browser or app can automatically open them through our own instance.
I am thinking along the lines of a registered resource type, or maybe a central redirect page, hosted by each instance, that knows how to send you to your instance to view the post there.
I am sure it is a problem that can be solved. I would however not be in favour of some kind of central identity management. It is to easy a choke point and will take autonomy away from the instances.
If you post a link to this, then I click that link, I am unable to reply directly, since I am on lemmy.world. I would need to first track down the equivalent post in my instance to reply. SSO solves this
Oh I see. Yeah, there could be a feature (a browser addon would work too) that reads the webpage meta data before opening it, and pops a “Open in kbin/lemmy/whatever?” window.
There’s a difference between a federated identify and single-sign on. Your identity /u/mango_master@lemmy.world IS federated. You don’t need to have a separate login for each instance. You can use that identity to interact with any instance much the same way I am using my federated identity to currently respond to you.
I think you mean /u/mango_master@lemmy.world
Should be @mango_master if all is working correctly, actually ;)
The threadiverse is a bit complicated since there needs to be a way of distinguishing between users and groups, but the
@user@host.orgformat is standardized across the fediverse.It’s funny because using the /u/ format seems to work just fine in the web interface, creating the proper link. Typing it out in the @ format doesn’t automatically create the hyperlink when I type it, but yours works just fine. ¯\(ツ)/¯
Also the /u/ format works when viewed in the Lemmy web interface, but not necessarily inside apps or from other federated services. :)
It also probably doesn’t count as a mention, so the user won’t be notified even if they have that enabled in the settings.
I do not have the same experience. If I want to interact with a different instance then I have to login to that instance. Granted I’m very new to Lemmy but so far the apps are not quite there yet and exploring the fediverse is difficult. Searches are useless unless you know exactly what instance you need to find what you’re looking for.
I understand. It really comes down to your entry point. For example, as long as I’m viewing the community/user/content via my instance I can interact; e.g. I’m replying to a post on https://mylemmy.win/post/114914 ; you, on the other hand are replying to https://kbin.social/m/fediverse@lemmy.world/t/158389/why-can-t-we-have-federated-identity . Since we’re viewing from our own instances we can interact. If either of us goes directly to the canonical URL, https://lemmy.world/post/1194109 , we’d be forced to login. It’s all the same post, just different points of entry that muddy the user experience.
As a new lemmy user this has made a lot of sense! Thanks.
I think what they mean is identity that is coupled to them the person and not whichever instance they choose to sign in on.
I think there’s a complex use case here which is a blend of the two (OP might not have been thinking about this, but I have) which I’ll call a “portable identity” but I mean portable more in the sense of high availability. From a problem statement point of view:
*.infois 100% blocked, newly registered domains less than 30 days old are blocked, sites which the filter has deemed unacceptable (firearms, nudity, etc.) are blocked and so forth. This block prevented me from reaching lemmy.world while on the work network, so I use(d) another instance while waiting on lemmy.world to registrar mature > 30 days - but what if this site had ended up beinglemmy.info? I’d be SoL getting to it, ever, while at workSo I think there’s a problem here to solve which currently is partially solved by having multiple logins on different instances, but is better solved in some other fashion (a blend of federated identity and SSO). Of course “run your own instance” is one type of solution to this problem but is beyond the reach of every possible user (IMHO) so it’s not really the best solution. Something new we don’t have yet needs to be dreamed up…
edit: I forgot a 4th use case, what happens when two instances semi-defederate and you want to use both without losing content? the issue with beehaw and .world one-way-defederating means that if you wish to get the full experience of participating on news@beehaw.org and news@lemmy.world, you need to use a 3rd instance which federates with both (in both directions).
This works great for apps. But I want to use the web interface to post a reply to content that’s not on my home instance. I can’t do that easily.
Gotcha. As others have already mentioned it is obtuse. If you end up at the post via your own instance it works but if someone links directly to the canonical post then you get confronted with needing to login. e.g. I see this post as https://mylemmy.win/post/114914, so I can interact just fine whereas if someone sent me the link to https://lemmy.world/post/1194109 (same post, different entry point) I’m stuck.
That should just work. You view the post on your own instance and reply there. That reponse trickles to the other instances.
It may take a while to propagate though. The paradigm is close to that of the ancient nntp news groups where responses travel at the speed of the server’s synchronisation. It may be tricky for rapid fire conversation, but works well for comments of articles.
I believe they’re talking about a situation where somebody is like …
Anybody who sees that link and is not already from someother.instan.ce now has to track down that post on their home instance in order to interact with it, which is a bad experience. It’s not the absolute worst thing in the world, like the home URL for the discussion we’re in right now is https://lemmy.world/post/1194109 and if you paste that URL into your local domain’s search it should find you the relevant discussion locally, but it still kinda sucks. In theory this would be sort of solve-able on the server end by having it search for any instance links behind the scenes and re-write other people’s links to point to the equivalent page on your own instance, but right now there’s no “nice” way to handle that situation.
Agreed on your point. We need a way to identify those links so that our browser or app can automatically open them through our own instance.
I am thinking along the lines of a registered resource type, or maybe a central redirect page, hosted by each instance, that knows how to send you to your instance to view the post there.
I am sure it is a problem that can be solved. I would however not be in favour of some kind of central identity management. It is to easy a choke point and will take autonomy away from the instances.
What interface are you using now? I’m responding to this thread from kbin.social instance usin kbin webclient
If you post a link to this, then I click that link, I am unable to reply directly, since I am on lemmy.world. I would need to first track down the equivalent post in my instance to reply. SSO solves this
Oh I see. Yeah, there could be a feature (a browser addon would work too) that reads the webpage meta data before opening it, and pops a “Open in kbin/lemmy/whatever?” window.