Watch collectors are kind of an odd bunch. I’m talking about “dumb” watches specifically - watches that only tell time and don’t have any sort of smartphone connectivity or biometric tracking. Some of the fancier models might have a timer on them, but you’re certainly not going to be getting text notifications. Watches have evolved over time from being a tool to basically men’s jewelry. A few key terms to know first:
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Mechanical - a watch that keeps time and is powered by a complicated series of springs and gears (this is called the movement). Due to the relatively high amount of niche skilled labor involved in making them, even the most basic mechanical watches can be fairly expensive.
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Quartz - a watch that keeps time via a quartz crystal oscillator and is powered by a battery. They are much less expensive AND more accurate than mechanical watches, but are frequently looked down upon by watch collectors as not being “real” watches (they don’t have a mechanical soul or some dumb shit like that).
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The Swatch Group - the Swiss watchmaking industry was seriously threatened in the 70s and 80s by the “Quartz Crisis”, when significantly cheaper quartz (mostly Japanese) watches began to completely dominate the market. Several Swiss companies survived by merging together to form the Swatch Group. Mechanical watch brands moved even more upscale, with a greater focus on luxury, artisanal craftsmanship, and brand heritage. They also launched a new brand, Swatch, which made inexpensive, but still Swiss-made, quartz watches in an attempt to the re-capture the entry level market share they had lost.
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Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch Professional - the “Speedy” is one of the most popular watches made by Omega, a luxury brand owned by the Swatch Group. It’s notable for being the watch that was given to all Apollo mission astronauts and was heavily used in the early NASA days, so the majority of its branding is based around the fact that the Speedy has been to the moon.
In early 2022, the Swatch Group announced a new watch model that was going to be a collaboration between two of its brands - the Omega X Swatch Bioceramic MoonSwatch. The MoonSwatch would have the same appearance and dimensions as the Speedy, with a few key differences:
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The Omega X Swatch branding.
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A quartz movement instead of a mechanical one. The Speedy is known for having an especially complex movement since it’s a chronograph (i.e. an analog stopwatch).
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The casing would be made of “bioceramic” (basically plastic) instead of stainless steel.
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Price would be $260, compared to the $6000+ of the Speedy.
Immediate reactions were heated. While some people loved the idea, a loud contingent hated it. The main complaints:
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It was quartz and thus not a real watch.
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It was made of plastic and thus not a real watch.
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The MoonSwatch devalued the real Speedy, since it was effectively an officially sanctioned counterfeit made of cheaper materials.
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The watch devalued the entire Omega brand, since they were putting their logo on a watch that even the poors could afford (the least expensive Omega is around $2500, which is actually on the low end for luxury watches).
The MoonSwatch came out shortly afterwards, and it turns out that demand far exceeded supply. The watch was only available in select Swatch boutiques (for example, only 11 stores in the USA carry it), so if you didn’t live near one of those stores you were SOL. People were lined up for hours to buy one. The MoonSwatch also came in 11 different colorways (themed after the planets, the sun, and the moon), and some of the models were limited to certain stores or even countries. A lot of the watches immediately ended up on Ebay with huge markups. Since it was sold out everywhere, that ended up pissing up the people who actually liked the watch. Some of the things they were upset about:
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It was easier to buy the real Speedmaster than the MoonSwatch. Speedy sales actually increased by 50% immediately after the launch.
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The distribution model meant you had to live in a major metropolitan area or be okay with buying one from a scalper online.
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The different colorways not being available everywhere upset the completionists who wanted to have one in every color.
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Accusations of favoritism where a few Swatch stores were taking bribes to let people have access to them early (favoritism is an issue with the watch industry in general).
Anyway, it’s been a year since the launch of the MoonSwatch. Hype has died down a bit, but they’re still hard to buy (Swatch stores will sell out in an hour whenever they get new stock). Swatch has said they aren’t planning on doing online sales, but it’s not intended to be a limited edition watch. There’s still criticism (I’ve seen complaints that the plastic feels cheap), but even the detractors had to admit it was the hottest watch of 2022.
TL;DR - Watch brand releases a watch that’s kind of a copy of a way more expensive watch made by the same parent company. This angers half of the watch collecting community. The other half is angered because the watch is sold out everywhere and a pain in the ass to buy.
Credit where credit is due; This is a repost from reddt
I’ve never liked communities based around buying certain products. So much gatekeeping and drama… and for what, to spend money? It’s a marketer’s wet dream.
I don’t see any value in celebrating the fact that someone went out and spent money to get something, or stood in line to get something.
The community is based around the objects… For enthusiasts, watches are neat. It’s an interesting thing because they are functional jewelry, and you can’t actually own that many cause they are expensive, and you can use even fewer at a time cause you only have two wrists (and even watch people will make fun of you if you wear two watches at once).
So the real community is talking about new things, what’s coming up, what you like and dislike, surprising history, a lot of stuff. In my group, we absolutely celebrate when someone gets a new watch, but not cause they’ve passed some kind of gate, but because they now have something they can enjoy and build memories with.
The truth is, marketers will take advantage of any hobby
Also, watches are frequently a guy hobby. It’s better than it used to be but men don’t have as many jewelry choices or ways to accessorize their style especially when dressed up or for work.
Most dudes could get over the thought that jewelry is for women or “gay” and just bling up.
It’s never easy to just “get over” decades and decades of societal conditioning. This isn’t some moral dilemma that we need to get over asap…this is fashion choices lol.
That’s fair. I’m not making it a moral dilemma but I think millennials and younger are much better equipped to question societal norms and try to go their own route in cases like this that have no impact on others.
My experience has been the complete opposite over on the watch subreddit. I never saw any gatekeeping and if you posted a picture of your new $10 watch there absolutely were plenty of comments on how awesome it is and how happy everyone is for you to get something you like. Also a lot of talk about the history and inner workings of watches not just circlejerking over brand names. Overall a pretty positive and encouraging group in my experience.
Consumerism at it’s finest. We get so worked up for things that should never get much emotions out of us. Watches, cars, console wars, fashion brands, mobile OS 🤮🤮🤮 We should make the effort not to care so much about brands, and just buy less. No one needs a watch
No one needs a watch
Not buying a watch is not going to solve consumerism. As someone who owns a (non luxury) watch I think that they’re really useful, and that more people should give them a chance
My comment was mostly about brand loyalty and the madness that ensues. As for the usefulness of watches, i realized they were redundant when i broke mine over 10 years ago and never bought another one again. We can all tell time from a phone, a computer, a train, car, microwave etc… Spend a week without one and see. Fine if you prefer to have one, but it isn’t a necessity or even a tool anymore, more of a fashion accessory.
I prefer not having to take out my phone just to check the time and because of that I consider a watch a necessary tool.
I appreciate the history of watches.
Well, these people don’t see watches the same way you do, and that is ok.
I only own a couple of watches, not really a collector, but I do like watches. I love em from the sheer fact that they are purely mechanical items. I like looking at the craftsmanship, and ofc how they look.
Like car people (who aren’t brand shills), love the cars themselves. What they represent, what they can do, what noises they make. How it feels while driving. Of course if you’re not interested in any of that you won’t be seeing eye to eye.
Plus, who am I to say what should make other people happy when it isn’t harming anyone? Someone liking a watch doesn’t do anything for the people around em.
Well a train conductor probably needs one, but I get your point haha
Bro idk shit about watches and this is at the top of /all for me and you just transported me into this world so I could experience the drama.
10/10 upvoted on multiple accounts
Oh man have you found your community, assuming this settles into a continuation of the original subreddit. Obscure interests lavishly produce “inject this directly into my veins” drama.
So this was super interesting and I went to check out the watches… why why why why why is every watch a variation of the color of the associated planet and goddamn Venus is pink?! Because clearly they needed a lady watch and us ladies always want pink? Grrrrr pointlessly gendered. Sorry I got carried away, anyway nice writeup.
I guess I can see it. But it would make more sense if it’s yellow like the planet
But they had to choose yellow for the Sun, so it couldn’t be that color.
You’re right. Checkmate
I wouldn’t say that I’m a watch collector. But a watch enthusiast? Definitely. I love watches of all types even though I have my own personal taste.
So what was it about the whole Omega x Swatch debacle that upset me? The fact they were basically gatekeeping a plastic watch that was a homage to the moon watch.
I stand by the fact that the price of a watch doesn’t really matter in terms of true value. Which is why budget timepieces have a high place on the list of many watch enthusiasts (see Timex or Casio).
This watch should have joined that list. It should have been a catalyst to introduce more people into the hobby of collecting or simply admiring these wrist worn works of art (occasionally lol). Instead, it’s another case of fomo and splintering of a community of people who already find ridiculous reasons to gatekeep each other (the write up points to this fact very clearly).
Anyways. My two cents.
Good write up.
You know… I don’t agree with it, but I totally get it. For people outside of the community, many people have INTENSE relationships with their watches. I think they tie part of their identity with certain milestones, and when a watch is also so tightly bound to said milestone - certain jobs, certain incomes, certain life events - any perceived cheapening is seen as a direct assault to their identify.
It’s like… your dad handed down his Speedy when you got married. You bought your first Speedy when you made partner at your law firm. Whatever it is, now there’s this perceived slight that some 15 year old now owns a bastardised version of something you achieved and they didn’t.
All of it’s made up. It’s jewellery. I’m sure the Hayeks are sitting in Biel/Bienne laughing their asses off. But still… my dream watch is the VC 222, and when they did the rerelease, I was kinda like - wtf, guys. Even though I have zero affiliation with the original 222 and will never own one, I tricked myself into an emotional attachment with it.
This is so stupid. Tribalism at its best, elitism at its worst.
I mean yes, but also… ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I see shit like this in EVERY community. Cars. Dogs. Guitars. Coffee. PC Parts. Booze. If there’s any thing where the core components of the hobby have variable pricing and scarcity of the “best” stuff, the most dedicated to that hobby will find a way to invent hierarchy. Humanity is beautiful and gross.
Whoa, that shrug guy loses his backslash arm in Lemmy too? It’s a reddit flashback!
I don’t have much to say about watches but THANK YOU for bringing hobby drama to the fediverse!
Seconding this sentiment. HobbyDrama is one of the very few communities I missed from Reddit. I couldn’t start it myself because I’m not well versed in hobbies and they’re dramas myself, so I couldn’t have contributed. I’m so happy to have these to read again, and I’m ok with them being cross-posted from Reddit to get the ball rolling.
The whole premise is a miss for me. The idea that $260 is cheap (because Omega’s cost $2500) is, frankly, stupid.
A watch should primarily display the time (in a permanently visible face) and possibly add the option for some audible reminders.
Changing batteries is a big problem, and so Solar (or Kinetic IDK) is an essential concept.
Casio with bold analog face, I can see the time without my glasses, and without even directly looking at the watch face (peripheral vision when riding my bike).
It has a digital inset with options for hourly chime, automatic day/date, and enough accuracy so I only adjust it once every 6 months or more…
It cost 1500 THB (maybe $25) and never needs a battery change…
7 years later it is always there for me to see the time.
So it is much more reliable than any smartwatch, and more functional then the majority of watches on sale.
Removed by mod
TIL there are people that take the collecting of expensive, single-purpose watches more seriously than any hardcore gamer takes their favorite game. Now I want to see somebody to bombard their community with ads for the cheapest shit-tier kids’ wristwatches and Chinese knockoff brands available.
Go to reddit.com/r/watchescirclejerk for the people who realize how ridiculous it is to take collecting jewelry so seriously. They’re watch enthusiasts who realize how stupid it is to be a serious watch enthusiast.
It’s hilarious. Because watch culture is filled with some of the most pretentious and self-aggrandizing people you’ll ever meet.
I wish I didn’t have to go to reddit to look at this (using Teddit btw) - maybe we need a Lemmy version of that sub
I’m definitely a part of that flock.
I own basically the cheapest mechanical chronograph watch in existence and I love it. For 250 bucks you can get a “Seagull 1963” watch from China on Amazon.
It’s actually a really nice looking watch with a glass case back so you can see all the gears in the movement. It was designed by the Swiss company Venus a long time ago and they sold it to a Chinese company at some point where it got copied by a bunch of other Chinese companies.
You might find it under a different brand name. Mine is the “Seakoss” variant. They come in a bunch of different styles and sizes so pick whichever you prefer.
Sure maybe it’s not great to be supporting China but so much stuff we buy comes from China anyway so I don’t think about it too much.
I wanted a mechanical watch so I could admire the gears but I wasn’t about to drop many thousands of dollars on one so this thing fits the bill.
Seagull generally do make good watches for the price. As does Tissel, which is a Korean brand, also within that price range.
Besides that, the standard brands from Seiko and Citizen are also pretty good, and they carry the name. Even Casio is pretty retro and affordable now.
That’s just how it is with luxury brands. Either someone just knows all the specifics, from type of leather used, to specific types of metals, from being in the industry or being brought up with it, or someone doesn’t care and can just afford it. You could do the same not just with watches, but plates, or wallpaper.
Me, who likes buying dirt cheap vintage watches:
Where do you buy them if you don’t mind sharing?
Ebay. I just have a saved search for “watch” and look for something interesting. The best deals are from estate sales where the seller isn’t an expert and just posts pictures and lists the item “as-is”. Of course you’re taking a risk, but a good percentage of time you get something nice that has just been collecting dust on a shelf or in a drawer somewhere.
Fair enough. I live in Japan and there’s a massive second hand market for mostly Japanese watches (most of which are Seikos lol). Nobody uses eBay here, it’s Mercari, and only knowledgeable people sell stuff. It’s still definitely cheap, but not ‘I have no idea what this is actually worth’ cheap.
All I got from this is that I searched the watch and now I want one…
Bro welcome to the club that’s how it all starts. Pretty soon you’ve got two cases full of watches and you never stop eyeing that countertop in Zales or whatever jewelry store
You didn’t mention about how they said all the MoonSwatch models would be available for purchase online and then later pulled that back and none of them are available online.
Also, many of those who were pissed about the MoonSwatch ripping off Omega were also pissed about not being able to buy one.
Ah, I missed these. Thanks for reposting, it was a fun read. Odd that Swatch Group still doesn’t sell the MoonSwatch online, given it’s supposed to be the affordable version ($260 USD) of the Speedy. Maybe they like the hype, but you’d think they prefer money.
They maybe wouldn’t sell as well if they were readily available, and OP did mention the sales of the pricier ones went up as well.
I never understood the watch thing. Mechanical watches are a Rube Goldberg way of timekeeping in the age of electronics. I was always hell on watches, so kept to cheap Timex or Casio watches. After I started carrying a mobile phone, I stopped wearing them entirely.
I do get cars and motorcycles though, at least to a point. Even something as simple as accelerating onto the highway is a vastly different experience in a Mitsubishi Mirage compared to doing the same in a V6 Camry, Z06 Corvette, or Tesla Model S.
After a certain point though, you’re well into rapidly diminishing returns in terms of performance /dollar, and it just becomes another financial dick swinging contest.
I’m surprised that Omega would allow such a massive devaluing of their brand. That’s about the only thing that keeps the value of these watches, the perception that a brand is worth so much. When everyone can have it for 5% of the price, it seems as though it would be harder to sell the real thing. People who want the status of such a high end brand would likely look towards other brands which hadn’t devalued their brands so much.
It doesn’t seem to have had that effect. Omega’s selling more Moonwatches than ever at the highest prices ever. Nobody’s buying a $200 plastic quartz watch instead of a $6,000 automatic.
Read my comment again. I’m not inferring that someone is buying a moonwatch instead of a real Omega. I’m saying that people will stop buying real omegas and buy something else that is still perceived as something rare and elite. Which Omega no longer will be as a brand.
