Oh boy, now’s the last chance to stop before it’s too late.
Don’t, under any circumstances, ever install something called “EndeavourOS”!
It’s the gateway to Å̸̧͉͝R̴̫̮̅͠C̷̪̘̬̓̿H̴̡̏, and once you set foot on that path, you won’t come out the other side without Unix socks and a Blåhaj.Which way do I gotta go for the Unix beard?
Slackware
Linux from Scratch and Gentoo are also pathways to abilities some would call… unnatural
Big truth right there.
The socks were in my cart, my mouse pointer right io the order button but before I could click the mouse, I changed my mind. It was almost too late but I installed Fedora just one moment short of being unable to turn back for good…
If gaming is a priority, Garuda is a nice one to avoid as well
“Gaming” distros are such a noob trap
Everything works, so keep gatekeeping if it makes you feel better
How is it gatekeeping? It’s is a trap though, there is literally nothing in those distros making gaming better. It’s like those “gaming” branded mice or keyboard that just have more color and a higher price tag. It’s there to attract people, but in the end you’ll get roughly the same performance whether you use mint, ubuntu or arch.
They don’t make gaming better, they make it easier for people who want to switch to have a functioning system, and there’s no price tag at all. Some will learn from there, some will just keep taking the easy way and that’s fine too.
It’s gatekeeping because without them only people willing and able to get technical get access to Linux. Would it be better if everybody learned? Of course. It’s not going to happen though, let others have a way in.
That’s the thing I don’t get. It only takes 5m starting from a fresh ubuntu/mint and the likes to be gaming ready. Even if you have no clue how to use a computer, there are hundreds of guides on how to do it in maybe 10m. Compare that to getting a gaming distro, which would save you those 10m but you’d pay the price next time you have an issue and realise the distro is way too niche for you to get a non-technical answer.
It’s not gatekeeping, I’m not keeping anyone away from Linux, I’m giving them a better path so they can have a smoother experience.
It takes 10 minutes for you. I know people who struggle to understand that the browser isn’t google isn’t the internet, try having them install a new OS. They don’t follow the guides, because they don’t even understand what they should look for.
Some understand enough but like the convenience, and again that’s fair.Bedsides, gaming distros aren’t the mess you say they are, nor are they so much more niche than any other major distro.
Usually they just work, when they don’t you look for fixes in the underlying distro community.You are gatekeeping, and you are condescendingly deciding the best path for everyone else. I get that you honestly think it would be better, still people are different, what’s best for you doesn’t need to be the best for everyone else.
Well, it’s made for Linux newbies…
That’s the point, it preys on those who don’t know enough to realise they got got. They’d be better off using more mainstream distros which are more stable and have more online help/documentation.
Don’t forget a apple fan boi level of false superiority.
falsesuperiorityIs hackintish still a thing? I haven’t looked at that in like 15 years.
With the new Apple silicon going on it’s killing Hackintosh by literally having non-Apple silicon going to be no longer supported.
So basically the EoL date for a Hackintosh is when Apple goes EoL on non-Apple silicon with their OS.
Which should be rather soon I suppose, anyway…
Endeavor is nice, btw
Me but opensuse tumbleweed, have it on my PC and Thinkpad now.
My first distro was arch btw. It’s not hard if you approach it with a mindset to learn. That’s the whole point of Linux anyway, it’s a tool and the better you know your tool the more capable that tool becomes.
It’s like a lathe with interchangeable parts and gears. You don’t know what your doing it might throw some metal at you but it’s also capable of crafting a precise and finely finished part in a short amount of time.
I also throw fedora on my laptop because laptops are an ergonomic nightmare. Plug and play is nice for when you don’t have time to really learn your tools or do setup and just need any hammer to get the job done. You can still smack your thumb though, it’s not a cordless drill with proprietary batteries like Macos or windows.
I’ve been on Linux Mint for two weeks now AND I LOVE IT. It feels like computing from back in 2010, just the way I like it.
Straight up it reminds of of being back on Windows 7 and it’s so goddamn cozy to be back there
It’s glorious, and as more people are driven off Windows by MS’s shady practices, Linux is only going to get better and better.
(re: learning curve) I’m actually enjoying the process of learning a whole new OS that isn’t constantly getting in my way. I like having software that’s logically designed, like a Word Processor (Libre Writer) that actually has the “Print” button right on the main screen and hasn’t buried it at the bottom of a sub-menu that’s not even on the menu bar.
Heh logically designed Linux software might not be as abundant as you think but you’ll get used it.
Since Mint is a derivative of Ubuntu, are you being asked to pay for security updates? Using Ubuntu right now and looking to switch soonish
Mint doesn’t ask for you to pay
Ubuntu Pro is free for personal use
Good to know, thanks. I would have googled it eventually.
Is this happening on Ubuntu, or are people just saying it might happen cos they don’t trust canonical?
Also, Mint Debian edition exists and works just fine. I have it on a brand new Intel laptop
I remembered reading about it happening soon (?) for certain kinds of security updates (?) somewhere but it’s almost 2am here and I’m having difficulty googling a reliable and thorough source but it sounds like users will have to subscribe to Ubuntu Pro to get certain kinds of update, although it might be free under certain circumstances.
I don’t know, Ubuntu has treated me well the last decade but I’m willing to explore other distros if it seems like it’ll be unnecessarily commericalized. Will read up more in the morning.
Hi there.
And no. I haven’t been aske dto pay for any updates.
Just made the switch to Nobara Linux on my desktop and ill probably go with Mint on my ancient laptop tomorrow. My only hang up was games but it seems like compatibility is a lot better nowadays so hopefully I can fully switch over. Same for windows only programs and Wine.
I only had a couple programs holding me: Fusion 360 and Windows 3D Builder.
Then I found out there’s a functional snap pack for Fusion 360. Now I just have to come up with a solution for Windows 3D Builder.
And the reason I use Windows 3D Builder is for 1 feature: it’s model repair function is far and away the best I’ve used for broken 3D models.
No idea if this will work for 3d builder but thought I’d mention it, Winapps
As Nobara is Fedora based and Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu/Debian, perhaps stay in this eco system and use some Fedora spin/derivate on the Laptop as well.
Good luck with the transition away from Windows!
Run Fedora KDE on my 2016 MacBook Pro, runs amazingly.
Personally, I use KDE on Debian and it works great on my 2011 Laptop.
I just think, especially for a beginner, remembering the ‘under the hood’ commands, e.g. package managers, different preconfigurations of installed packages e.t.c., for such different distributions is probably quite challenging.
How’s it with NVIDIA hardware?
I’ve been using Mint for about 6 months now and it works with Nvidia just fine BUT the new user experience isn’t great. You have to use the nomodeset kernel option and install Nvidia drivers, otherwise you’ll boot to a black screen.
Helpful guide: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=421550
I had an nvidia card in my possession briefly recently. when I was testing it I found distros that have a separate nvidia installer image are the way to go if you dont want to have a shit time. Converting a standard image post install is about as much of a shit task as it was back when I had a gtx 460. once its set up either way it seems mostly fine but I already had a more recent amd card and don’t want to deal with the kernel module crap. dkms has failed me a few times in the old days and I never forgave it.
Yeah, I don’t fully understand why Nvidia cards have this problem on first setup with so many distros. On Windows, the default display driver can at least boot with reduced resolution on most cards made in the last 15 years until you install proper drivers. It seems like the Linux kernel and common desktop environments ought to be able to do the same.
Maybe this is better in the 6.x kernel, I haven’t tried it. I’m not too much of a tinkerer, so the bleeding edge doesn’t interest me. I just want a good shell, POSIX for personal coding projects, and the ability to play games on Steam. Mint is great for that once you get past the initial display driver issues.
Im on AMD so can’t help with that
Welcome to the Linux side of things
If you’ve recently installed Linux, you’re probably going to be making a lot of changes and installing a lot of stuff over the next couple of weeks. I recommend using TimeShift (comes pre-installed on Linux Mint) to make a snapshot of your system. (It works like System Restore on Windows). The first snapshot takes up the most space but later snapshots only contain the changes you make to your system.
It’s a good idea to take a snapshot before you update things like graphics card drivers or additional desktops. Then, you can always go back to where you were if something gets messed up. You can even rescue a system that won’t boot by booting from your Live Linux USB and running Time shift. It will find your hard drive backups and restore them for you.
Green Ubuntu
Green Ubuntu best Ubuntu
Welcome, if you need any help feel free to ask! Also don’t let the few bad eggs in our community ruin your time, there’s plenty of us who really care about building a strong community.
I’m also a Linux newbie who just installed Mint. Initially I just put it onto a flash drive for a taster. I liked it so much that I decided to allocate some disk space to dual boot it with Windows 11.
I haven’t committed to it fully for the moment, but I can definitely see me drop Windows for it at some point.
It’s awesome. So customisable and free of bullshit like W11 has. It also has a clean, modern UI that I’m a big fan of.
I think I’m going to continue using Windows for gaming right now, and Linux for everything else.
Steam has a native linux client and they’ve also spent years, developing a proprietary wine-wrapper, called Proton. I’ve been able to run all my Steam games on Linux with no problems. :)
Proton is not proprietary and not a wrapper, but more of an extension for wine. Makes it even better imho :p
Proton is incredible. Linux has come so far in the last couple years for gaming. I’m running Intel/Nvidia (which used to be a big no-no), playing 99% of what I want to play with no issues. If I ever see issues it’s usually a game that uses anti-cheat. Even the vast majority of my games work fine now. Controller support is simple too.
I’m guessing another year an I won’t have Windows in my setup at all.
Hell yeah! Welcome brother!
I figure this is a halfway decent place to ask, and it’s on my mind. If there’s a better place to ask, I’d love a point in the right direction, cause navigating lemmy well still eludes me.
Looking to test out linux for the first time and I know fuck-all about the basics, and I have a couple of questions:
spoiler
gaming is my main use for my pc, and I’ve seen Bazzite and Pop_OS as recommendations, are these good starting points? Relevant system specs (I assume):
- CPU: Intel i5-9600K (overclocked in BIOS)
- GPU: NVIDIA RTX 2060 (overclocked with MSI afterburner)
- 2 monitors setup, with my main setup for gsync (‘adaptive-sync/freesync’). Both are ASUS monitors
- I almost universally don’t play games with anticheat, so I’m not concerned on that front (I’ve heard that’s a big wall for linux gaming)
spoiler
I plan on using an SSD for testing linux because I have a spare available, but I’d like to eventually use my NVME that my current windows install is on for linux (after swapping windows to a different drive of course). Could I expect any issues by doing that, or should I set up NVME for linux before starting the dive?
spoiler
I’d like to be able to boot into windows or linux regularly (at least until I get my bearings and settle into it), but I’ve heard windows like to fuck with boot processes in some way? Any tips for avoiding boot issues?
Again, if there’s a better place to ask (I’m sure there is lol), I’d appreciate a mention for that too.
Edit: collapsible spoilers are a damn godsend.
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I’d recommend pop os over bazzite because it’s a more standard distro, bazzite is immutible (update entire system at once instead of individual apps, and part of the filesystem are read only. It’s harder to break stuff on an immutible distro, but they’re less common and most resources online are for normal distros). It isn’t hard to get nvdia drivers working on pop os, so I’d just google it after you get it set up.
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I’d make sure your windows drive is unplugged before installing, so you don’t accidentally wipe it! I’ve never dealt with swapping what drive the os is on, but I’d expect some stuff to break because the filesystem is pointing to unique IDs that no longer match. That shouldn’t be hard to fix by googling the errors, but I’d watch out for it.
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Windows updates like to mess up bootloaders sometimes, I’ve never had that happen, so I don’t have any advice there. Unplugging the windows drive when you instsl should help, and just make sure the default is to boot into linux, that way any auto restarts won’t get into windows to mess stuff up unless you let it.
c/pop_os@lemmy.world
c/linux@lemmy.ml
Could also be good places to ask
The only things id be concerned about is that multi monitor will work better under Wayland but nvidia may not. Nvidia and wayland is getting better while multimonitor on X isn’t, but I don’t know exactly how things are rn enough to say
I think I read there was a big nvidia compatibility fix for Wayland coming down the pipeline, but who knows when it’ll reach distros.
That started the process already with the 545 drivers, but I saw a ton of bugs when I tried to update to 545. Probably won’t be ready for another year or two.
Yeah, I’ve heard it’s getting better, but I have an amd card, so not really sure where it’s actually at. X would probably be better for nvdia for a while, especially on pop_os, but idk what the actual state is.
Could you expand on that a bit? What do you mean by ‘work better’?
For context, my main monitor is the one I want working well (any gaming is exclusively on my main). My second monitor is only used for more screen space, and occasionally playing videos (I don’t care if it’s high quality if it’s on my second).
Multimonitor is just a better experience on Wayland. For instance, you can have different refresh rates for your monitors and the way it’s handled isn’t janky and hacky.
Noted. both my monitors are 75hz and capable of variable refresh rate, so in theory they don’t need to have different refresh rates for my setup, but I imagine playing games and watching a video might throw a slight wrench in that. Just out of curiosity for my options, would plugging my second monitor directly into my Mother board help mitigate any issues on that front (instead of having both plugged into my GPU)?
it’s not a setup issue, it’s a hard limit of xorg. maybe having two xservers may help, but then you wouldn’t be able to move windows between them. the way multiple monitors are done using x is that they’re treated as one continuous screen, but that means it can get a bit wacky because they’re not the same.
Ah, makes sense. I kinda figured it wouldn’t be that easy to solve, but I had hope that it might have a ‘cheap’ workaround.
Hell yeah, thanks. I’ll likely not use bazzite then (I’m less concerned with breakage if it means I have more options). Is there any other distros that you might recommend? I don’t know what’s out there, and it seems like a lot.
Also, thanks for the links! I’ll check around there too.
The basic recomendations I’d give for distro is something popular based off Ubuntu or fedora. Both are pretty friendly distros, and most things based off them aren’t going to make too many changes to how core systems work.
If it’s based off one of those I’d argue the more important question is what user interface (called a desktop environment) you like. Watch a few videos of each distro in action and pick what you think looks best.
A lot of big distros have “spins” or varieties that have different desktop environments. So if you
Some specifics I’d recommend:
- Linux mint: a distro based on Ubuntu that’s designed to be easy to use, without much setup. Most stuff will just work, but being based on Ubuntu, it’s a stable distro, so updates will be a bit slower, and there won’t be any major changes in the same version. (I would reccomend this over standard Ubuntu personally because the company behind Ubuntu has made decisions I don’t like (like prioritizing their own way of installing programs that, in my opinion, is a inferior to other methods))
Slightly less highly recomended:
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Fedora: takes a quicker approach to updates, but isn’t as focused on being friendly to new users. It has a variety of spins: https://fedoraproject.org/spins/ if you go with fedora, I’d recommend GNOME (the default, more similar to Mac), KDE (similar to windows), or cinnamon (what linux mint uses, similar to windows).
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nobara: I’ve heard good things about nobara, but I’m not super familiar with it. It’s basically fedora KDE with some extra patches added to better support gaming. The one negative I’ve heard is the maintainer is very busy, so ocasionally updates will be delayed vs fedora. It’s more of a hobbyist distro, but the maintainer seems pretty dedicated, and they also maintain a version of valve’s proton (one of the things that lets you play windows games on linux called proton ge that includes additional patches)
In order I’d recommend pop_os, linux mint, fedora, nobara. If you look at KDE and decide you like it, then I’d go withth fedora or nobara.
The main reason I’d recommend pop_os or mint is because you have an nvdia graphics card. Nvdia drivers have tended to be worse on linux, especially under a newer protocol called Wayland, which fedora is moving over to in it’s next release. Mint and pop_os slower update cycles are more likely to stay on x11 (the older protocol, but better supported by nvdia cards) until everything’s very solid.
Fedora’s trying to push linux forward, which is good imo, and most things should be fine with nvdia, but there will be more bugs. (I’ve heard it’s gotten pretty good, but I have an amd card and don’t want to recommend them without warning until I know for sure there aren’t issues)
Thanks for the recommendations, and another thanks for giving a quick rundown on them too! These comments have been wildly helpful for essentially laying down some framework in my head about it.
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I recommend downloading the latest Linux Mint .iso file and using Rufus to create a bootable, live USB drive. Also, if your computer has an internal d: drive, I would recommend using that entire drive, instead of dual-booting from c: (I had a bad experience removing Linux from a dual boot system and getting the partitions back to normal). This way, you’re not touching anything on your windows (c:) drive.
If you’re really worried about messing up your c: drive, you can physically disconnect it while you’re installing Linux, so the Live installer only has one choice for installation. After you’ve installed Linux, change your boot order in BIOS to boot from your d: drive first. Once you’re sure Linux is working correctly, you can run “sudo update-grub” which will add your c: drive to the boot menu on the d: drive. This allows you to dual boot into either OS without touching anything on your c: drive (so the boot menu will be on d:, your linux drive). Grub will let you choose between continuing to boot from d: or to boot windows on c: without you having to change the boot order every time in BIOS.
If you use Steam to manage your games library, you’re really going to like that Steam has been developing a proprietary Wine wrapper, called Proton, which lets you run all your Steam games from Linux. Steam also has a native linux client. So all the Steam games you backed up on windows, you can restore on Linux. I’ve run everything from Unreal Gold, to Witcher 3 to Techtonica to Fallout 4 without any problems.
Awesome, thanks!
I’m definitely not short on drives, so I’m not gonna bother with any partition shenanigans. The trouble is I only have one NVME drive, so it’s just a question of which OS gets my best drive, but that’s pretty minor honestly.
You mentioned Fallout 4, do you have experience in playing with mods on linux? That’s another unknown for me, as I like modding and have no idea how that might transfer over.
I was able to move my Witcher 3 mods from Windows to Linux and the witcher 3 game recompiled the mod scripts for me just fine.
I don’t know if Nexus mod manager will work on Linux (haven’t tried it yet). I’m hoping Proton is already configured for Fallout 4 mods (mod directory locations, environment variables, etc)
I looked it up a bit ago because I was curious, and apparently Mod Organizer 2 works well on linux.
Also, not to shill too hard, but I like MO2 way more than Vortex (official successor to Nexus Mod Manager). I feel like MO2’s got a slight learning curve up front, but after that, it’s way more capable and easier to use than Vortex, especially as number of mods increases.
my gear
I still use HDDs because my 2 PCs are very old. But they both run versions of Linux mint 21.3 (the current release) without issue. Mint xfce on my 15 year old optiplex with 4Gb ram.(because 2 slots are fried) My other different model optiplex (also about 15 years old) has mint xfce, mint, another mint (different purposes) a shared volume, a timeshift partition (snapshots) on a 1tb hdd and windows on its original 320mb drive. 8Gb ram, onboard video, external soundcard
things
Over clocking on Linux… Not sure if necessary? Linux uses a CPU governor which throttles or maxes CPU based on … Things. Same with memory.
I don’t play games, but I do run other processor heavy stuff. I know nvidia has/had issues depending on certain seemingly random things. Their drivers, I believe, are mostly NOT open source.
WINE is a godsend, especially the latest version 8. Wine gives you the ability to natively rum most windows apps. (Some run better on Linux, lol) You could install windows as a VM, too. But wine works for what I need (fl studio basically)booting issues
If you dual boot, windows must be installed first. Windows (MBR) and Linux (GPT or MBR) use different partition table types. Windows stores the boot loader in the MBR (master boot record) which is usually the first 100mb of a disk. Linux gpt can install boot record to disk (/dev/sda), to disk boot partition(/dev/sda6), and to BIOS. Windows will often overwrite the Linux boot loader (GRUB) Boot menus in Linux are fully customisable text files. They can be simple text menus, or fancy graphical ones. When GRUB is.used it finds other OSs on your disks. It makes a menu. It works. Separate drives helps. Linux isn’t limited to 4 logical volumes or the need for extended partitions. Linux can see all filesystem types. Windows?
::: filesystem’s Linux uses a fuckton of different filesystems for different functions (Linux is at its core -simple, but it is voluminous in the knowledge base - 15 years later and I’m still going, 'oh, that’s cool, I didn’t know I could do that) Anyway, the main fs on Linux is ext4, but it can read/write/modify NTFS, fat, vfs, luks, and on and on. Windows does NTFS and fat. :::
::: don’t be scared The terminal is actually, really, truly, for real, your best friend and portal to power potential :::
Resources may seem overwhelming at first. Linux uses a lot of words to do things. The GUI has gotten prettier, but the real customisation comes in text files(all of Linux is text files) there’s not registry that is mostly unreadable/unusable.
Linux manages resources much better (Maybe because it doesn’t try to stuff ads all over the place and spy on you)
Use the manpages man7.org or sjmilar Use archwiki.org Use bash.org Use your distros site (or use Ubuntu.com or Debian.org for deb/Ubuntu variants like mint)
Learn your package manager. (Apt, pacman, whatever it is). Install apps from there. Unless trusted or you’ve reviewed the code, avoiding installation from websitez is good practice.
Everything is a text file. Configuration files are usually easily readable and configurable. Though some may be in json and some in Java and some in Matlab and some in sh and some in plaintext (the joys of not having monolithic monopolies controlling everything)
Anyway. Its late. I’ve rambled. Happy fossing
For both 2 & 3 the answer is the same:
Having Mint and Windows on the same machine will end up with a completely fucked boot drive if you’re not super careful.
When I installed Mint on an NVME I installed specifically for it, either it or windows decided that the boot info should be placed on my SSD with Windows and not on the same NVME as mint (as I wanted, as windows was literally just a dead data drive to me at this point that happened to be bootable), so when it came time for the wipe and swap of drives I suddenly couldn’t boot anything
Minor headache to get boot repair rolling and get everything set up properly to the partition I’d made on the NVME, but the googling I did to fix this taught me that Mint and Windows Dual-Boot is a question of “when and what will fuck Up” rather than “if it will”
My advice would be to just read carefully what’s happening when you do drive shit and to keep a working boot USB for mint (should do this anyway, but keep it updated) for at least as long as you’re dual booting. Boot repair WILL save you, its very easy to use, and remember the words emblazoned on that amazing book: Don’t Panic
Noted about the USB drive, I’ll definitely have that available, thanks!
Consider Nobara for gaming!
My only concern with nobara is that Fedora 41’s dropping x11 support, and I’m not confident nvdia drivers will be in a good enough state to recommend to a beginner.
Seconded, runs like butter Bazzite sounds good too but I don’t like the idea of an immutable distro so until/unless nobara becomes broken I’m sticking with it.
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Ever since we got the OK to dual boot our machines at work, I’ve been daily driving Mint Cinnamon unapologetically and with no plans to change.
I’m looking to close tickets rather than tinker with my install. It’s nice to start with something fully featured working great out of the box. But it’s still Linux, and based on Debian/Ubuntu at that, so I can run/install/change whatever I want. I don’t feel restricted just because somebody else did a ton of configuration for me before I installed it.
If this were 20 years ago, I’d totally be an Arch/Gentoo user, constantly breaking things and troubleshooting, distro hopping, and all that. But the busy middle aged parent version of me currently speaking is extra grateful for all the effort volunteers (and some companies) have put into making new installs so freaking easy.
Honestly, I’d be a Mint user if it weren’t for me being almost entirely spoiled rotten by the the ease of using
pacman. I’ve literally never had an easier time with a package manager.If I had to choose a more ready-made distro to replace my current Arch install, I’d probably look into EndeavorOS.
Windows 11 is too proudy.
If I wanted to be violated as much as Windows 11 wants to violate me I’d reinstall Grindr
Grab your ankles and bite the pillow, Microsoft is going in dry.
Mint was the distro that converted me. After 8-10 years, I’m still using the cinnamon DE, but just on top of Arch. Next hope is the devs port it over wayland so I can also ditch xorg. (There is a demo/alpha available)
Can somebody explain why everyone is trying to ditch xorg? I’ve never had an issue with xorg, but I’m always hearing about major issues with Wayland.
Xorg(and the x server protocol) is very old and like most long lived software has quite a few warts and quirks.
Wayland has been “the future” for like 10 years (though it’s quite a bit older). It’s only now starting to reach a critical mass where things are starting to change so it might feel a bit of a mess at the moment.
Because it is mess or a program. If nothing else Wayland has much better security. However, X tends to be less performant and harder on power usage. It also has poor support for input devices such as touch screens and is unreliable with multiple different monitors.
Better multimonitor support, VRR, and HDR are some of the promises I think. I want all of these things but not enough to switch away from Linux Mint. I’ll be happy when Wayland makes its way in over the next couple of years.
Wayland has much more up-to-date graphics technologies behind it to put it simply.
Noob here, also curious to this…
“… now, how do I reverse scrolling…”
I’ve liked Linux Mint for a long time, but it’s quickly becoming my goto distro for everything.
LMDE for my business laptop, Ubuntu-based Linux Mint boxes deployed at my workplace, Linux Mint VMs in my home lab.
Workhorse distro 100%
