Proportional self-defense probably ended before November, though, when the Palestinian civilian death toll hopped up to over triple the Israeli civilian death toll from the Hamas attack.
Maybe? Hamas clearly gives zero shits about civilians and theres so much propaganda coming out, I wouldnt be surprised to find out Hamas has a higher body count.
Hell, I wouldnt put it past Hamas to delibritly murder Gaza civilians in order to blame the IDF. Hell, didnt they hit a hospital with a rocket?
Ah, the good ole genocide apologist. One missile attack that may or may not be attributable to Hamas invalidates all other evidence of IDF wrongdoing.
Look that missile attack could have been Hamas but after the media firestorm died down something funny happened; the IDF realised they could get away with airstriking hospitals. Ever since all Gazan hospitals were beset with airstrikes and raids. Some raids even involved IDF soldiers dressed as medical personnel arriving in medical vehicles. (They only found two militants in that raid btw, both were wounded and being treated) But IDF hitting hospitals was old news and muddied waters, most of the news wasn’t interested in it anymore. “Ah but it was Hamas doing that” cries the apologists never explaining why Hamas suddenly is able to use jets or why they aren’t using the constant barrage of munitions directed at hospitals and residential areas to attack Israel instead.
After a while, there was that IDF airstrike on an aid convoy. The spacing of the hits meant it was clearly targeted and hamas doesn’t have anywhere near the capability and never has. The IDF blamed a few scapegoats said how it was a terrible mistake. But after the media firestorm died down something funny happened the IDF realised they could get away with air striking aid convoys. There’s been at least 8 more convoys hit from airstrikes and countless direct attacks from Israeli settlers (who are armed and equipped by the Israeli government) on aid convoys since.
Then there’s the mass graves. Multiple mass graves have been found outside hospitals that had been occupied by the IDF after the IDF withdrew. The occupants of these mass graves tended to be in restraints, tended to be women, old folk or had some serious wound. Some have been identified as doctors who worked in the hospitals, others were found wearing hospital gowns with IV tubes still in their arms. Many had signs of recent torture. Some appear to have been buried alive. These hospitals were operating (even under fire) right up until the IDF seized the building.
But it’s all a Hamas smokescreen isn’t it? It couldn’t be that the hatred the Israeli government has repeatedly expressed towards Palestine and it’s people is real could it? It couldn’t be that the side you picked to support, the one that frequently refers to Palestines as animals, are willing to commit atrocities? It couldn’t be since the other side is Hamas a genuinely vile organisation that murders their political opposition, steals aid and launches attacks aimed at murdering civilians. Your side must be the good guys. Since your side is the good guys all the stuff about them doing horrible things must be fake. Right?
I do not support Hamas, I am very tired of having to make that clear. I am very much not on their side. I despise them. They launched the October attack because Iran and Israel had started showing signs of thawing relations and they wanted to nip that in the bud (which worked). They wanted the retaliation they expected. They wanted Israel to make the Palestinians suffer more. It boosts their support when that happens. It’s been the same grotesque song and dance for decades. I would love to see Hamas rounded up and tried for their many crimes. They benefit too much from the conflict for there to be peace with them in charge. But the same could be said for the current Israeli government which have helped prop up Hamas because Hamas reduces Palestine’s international legitimacy, makes a two state solution (which they are very much against) basically impossible and provides a convenient bogeyman to keep them in power. All the while it’s the Palestinian civilians who suffer and die.
You yourself just cut a check for Hamas to indiscriminately slaughter 29k israelis as “proportional self defense” for how far in the red that ledger is over Oct 7th.
You mean like Hamas? Leftists have this oppression totempole, and anyone being “oppressed” are automatically good.
You don’t have to be “good” to deserve human rights.
Sure. But at the same time, if you attempt to commit genocide, porportional self defense is fair. The question becomes what is porportional.
Proportional self-defense probably ended before November, though, when the Palestinian civilian death toll hopped up to over triple the Israeli civilian death toll from the Hamas attack.
Well, from that single attack on Oct 7th, but thats just one attack out of many. Its unclear just how many have been killed, and by who.
Not really. Even the highest estimates of Israeli casualties for the entire year don’t come close.
Maybe? Hamas clearly gives zero shits about civilians and theres so much propaganda coming out, I wouldnt be surprised to find out Hamas has a higher body count.
Hell, I wouldnt put it past Hamas to delibritly murder Gaza civilians in order to blame the IDF. Hell, didnt they hit a hospital with a rocket?
Ah, the good ole genocide apologist. One missile attack that may or may not be attributable to Hamas invalidates all other evidence of IDF wrongdoing. Look that missile attack could have been Hamas but after the media firestorm died down something funny happened; the IDF realised they could get away with airstriking hospitals. Ever since all Gazan hospitals were beset with airstrikes and raids. Some raids even involved IDF soldiers dressed as medical personnel arriving in medical vehicles. (They only found two militants in that raid btw, both were wounded and being treated) But IDF hitting hospitals was old news and muddied waters, most of the news wasn’t interested in it anymore. “Ah but it was Hamas doing that” cries the apologists never explaining why Hamas suddenly is able to use jets or why they aren’t using the constant barrage of munitions directed at hospitals and residential areas to attack Israel instead.
After a while, there was that IDF airstrike on an aid convoy. The spacing of the hits meant it was clearly targeted and hamas doesn’t have anywhere near the capability and never has. The IDF blamed a few scapegoats said how it was a terrible mistake. But after the media firestorm died down something funny happened the IDF realised they could get away with air striking aid convoys. There’s been at least 8 more convoys hit from airstrikes and countless direct attacks from Israeli settlers (who are armed and equipped by the Israeli government) on aid convoys since.
Then there’s the mass graves. Multiple mass graves have been found outside hospitals that had been occupied by the IDF after the IDF withdrew. The occupants of these mass graves tended to be in restraints, tended to be women, old folk or had some serious wound. Some have been identified as doctors who worked in the hospitals, others were found wearing hospital gowns with IV tubes still in their arms. Many had signs of recent torture. Some appear to have been buried alive. These hospitals were operating (even under fire) right up until the IDF seized the building.
But it’s all a Hamas smokescreen isn’t it? It couldn’t be that the hatred the Israeli government has repeatedly expressed towards Palestine and it’s people is real could it? It couldn’t be that the side you picked to support, the one that frequently refers to Palestines as animals, are willing to commit atrocities? It couldn’t be since the other side is Hamas a genuinely vile organisation that murders their political opposition, steals aid and launches attacks aimed at murdering civilians. Your side must be the good guys. Since your side is the good guys all the stuff about them doing horrible things must be fake. Right?
I do not support Hamas, I am very tired of having to make that clear. I am very much not on their side. I despise them. They launched the October attack because Iran and Israel had started showing signs of thawing relations and they wanted to nip that in the bud (which worked). They wanted the retaliation they expected. They wanted Israel to make the Palestinians suffer more. It boosts their support when that happens. It’s been the same grotesque song and dance for decades. I would love to see Hamas rounded up and tried for their many crimes. They benefit too much from the conflict for there to be peace with them in charge. But the same could be said for the current Israeli government which have helped prop up Hamas because Hamas reduces Palestine’s international legitimacy, makes a two state solution (which they are very much against) basically impossible and provides a convenient bogeyman to keep them in power. All the while it’s the Palestinian civilians who suffer and die.
You yourself just cut a check for Hamas to indiscriminately slaughter 29k israelis as “proportional self defense” for how far in the red that ledger is over Oct 7th.
Considering they shot a rocket at a hospital and blamed the IDF, I wouldnt be surprised if we’re already there. Impossible to know for sure though
People don’t like complex problems. And no, I probably don’t side with you.