• A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        what kind of woke liberal socialism is this?

        don’t they know those solar power panels will use up all the sun! What will happen when we run out of sun?! /s

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        So, this is definitely good from an infrastructure perspective. But because the infrastructure is all privately owned and operated in pursuit of profit, the cost problem isn’t solved by the new capital.

        Much like with all the new natural gas electric plants, these battery centers simply exist to exploit the short periods of time in which Texas electricity prices jump from $25 Mwh to $3000 Mwh. As the cartels sink their claws deeper into the retail market, the possibility of enormous price spikes increase, with base loads falling and surge pricing becoming much more common.

        • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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          6 months ago

          It’s not a cartel risk. It’s a supply and demand equation. More supply means lower prices.

          It’s just market prices.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            It’s not a cartel risk. It’s a supply and demand equation.

            Cartels love industries with inelastic demand.

            It’s just market prices.

            Markets aren’t magic. Prices are a consequence of human decisions. And if you can withhold electricity from the grid to maximize returns (by forming a cartel with other producers) you can drive those prices up when people can least afford to reduce consumption.

            • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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              6 months ago

              Isn’t it tonnes of different people, farmers and such. Too many for a cartel to form. Reducing supply is just going to mean to make less money.

              Batteries are making the grid a lot more elastic.

              • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Isn’t it tonnes of different people, farmers and such.

                Farmers and such are not selling power on the Texas wholesale electric grid, no.

                Reducing supply is just going to mean to make less money.

                Because fossil fuel supplies are limited, you can often make more money selling a small amount onto the market at a high price than a large amount onto the market at a low price.

                • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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                  6 months ago

                  Some people ideas of capitalism are so warped.

                  If there is an energy cartel report them.

      • BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        This does bring up kind of an interesting question for me at least.

        I would expect that a significant contributor to the surge prices is from HVAC units and similar needing to work harder/etc. My brain also feels like solar panels are likely to work better when it’s warmer, but I realize that I don’t have any proof of that or know how that would work beyond ‘when hot, feels like more sun rays, more sun rays good for solar?’.

        On to the question, do solar panels work better in warmer temperatures and does output of solar panels scale anywhere close to comparatively with ambient temperature and/or need for HVAC and similar systems?

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          I would expect that a significant contributor to the surge prices is from HVAC units and similar needing to work harder/etc.

          That’s one end of the equation. But the other end is in how we’re replacing coal plants with natural gas plants.

          Coal plants are significantly slower to respond to market demand (on the scale of hours to increase/decrease supply), so they need to be run at a higher output on a longer time frame as electricity demands rise. Because ERCOT auctions electricity demand in 15 minute intervals, coal plants can’t meet a short spike in demand before its come and gone. Natural gas plants don’t have this problem. They can sit on their reserve fuel until the prices peak and then flood the grid with electricity on short notice.

          As coal plant profitability sinks relative to gas plant cartels, the volume of electricity we produce becomes more and more easy to rig within the ERCOT auction markets. HVACs going into overdrive in the evening (typically between 3-7pm) signal a potential spike in demand. But gas plant operators get to wait until the electricity auction realizes those high prices, rather than producing electricity in advance and hoping you get to ride a wave through sunset.

          do solar panels work better in warmer temperatures and does output of solar panels scale anywhere close to comparatively with ambient temperature and/or need for HVAC and similar systems?

          A lot of the heat in cities like Houston comes from the humidity combined with the sun, so a bit of breeze can drastically impact the gross demand for electricity. Meanwhile, electric components of all sorts (photovoltaics included) perform worse in the heat. Breeze can also impact electricity available from wind turbines, which further shift prices.

          Batteries can help renewable energy companies hedge against peak production relative to peak consumption. But, again, a private market maker still wants to chase the highest returns. So putting a bunch of quick-to-discharge batteries on a grid alongside quick-to-ramp-up natural gas turbines means… more cartel price fixing.