China has spent $57 billion over 7 years on EV subsidies. The US subsidies are buyer incentives which, until recently, were available for foreign vehicles as well. A Tesla sold in China does not get subsidized. Chinese subsidies have included large direct subsidies on the manufacturing.
I personally see direct subsidies to corporations as a last resort since corporations seem to use them for nothing but stock buy-backs.
Certainly, but that doesn’t mean the US can be dependent on China for it’s transition. As stated further up, I am very much in favor of government intervention to force auto makers to sell a lot more electrics. The current regulations are terrible.
Current evs are terrible. They lose some mileage every year until the battery completely fails when it’s 10 to 20 years old. At that point, if you had an EV with an actual usable range as a total replacement vehicle, you’re looking at $15,000 to replace a battery. The entire half of the US that needs to buy older used vehicles is going to be screwed, while the other half are paying much more for their new vehicles. The average American can’t afford the average new car.
I buy used and our vehicles are a 2013 Nissan Leaf and a 2017 Chevy Volt. We had to replace the battery on the leaf last year and it was $9k. It’s still the most economical vehicle we’ve ever owned. It’s not taking us on any cross country trips, but it’s got the range we need as our primary vehicle.
You are not wrong, but for a whole lot of Americans there are vehicles that fit their needs. Forcing auto makers to sell more would also force them to lower prices or increase quality.
Dude. You had to spend $9,000 on a 6 year old battery in a short range car. I have a 2008 Prius with 249,000 miles on it, I change the oil myself, and I’ve spent a total of $3,800 on it, not counting fluid changes that I do at home. You spent more on a battery than I buy vehicles for.
It’s not a contest. The point was that there are affordable ways to go electric, so you’re just supporting my argument. Congrats on deushing your own oil, but where did you buy 5000+ gallons of gas for less than $3,800?
I’m a really bad person to ask that. I’ve never bought a car (and I’m kind of old) newer than 10 years old and with one exception, I’ve never spent over $500 in a year on any maintenance or repairs. About 6 of those vehicles were sports cars. Most cars I buy I’ll keep a few years and then sale for 0 loss. I’m fully aware I’m the exception to the rule, but not enough to offset the EV cost. Older used EVs will be worth so much less than other cars. People will quickly learn that buying an old EV means they’ll have to tack on an extra $15k for a battery.
Good for you that you are recycling old cars. I do the same - our 2nd car is a 1993 Corolla with 275k on it. Drives fine. For you an EV doesn’t make sense and that’s just fine. But:
People will quickly learn that buying an old EV means they’ll have to tack on an extra $15k for a battery.
This is the sort of crap people spew when they can’t be bothered to research stuff and just use “facts” they “heard”. They generalize and round way up and now these are the new “facts”. I have to imagine you can do better.
Not all batteries are $15k - far from it. Many are $6-7k Given that maintenance and TCO at that point are extremely low, that’s not bad over the lifetime of a car. Ever had to replace an engine? Easily in the same range for some cars.
It’s not a given that an “old” EV needs a new battery. Lifespans are easily 10 years or more and lose range at about 1-2% per year or 10% every 200,000 miles.
Battery costs have plummeted and continue to fall.
Most are not six or $7k. In fact very few are. Just in this thread is a person who had to spend $9k to replace the battery on their 2017 Leaf. A subcompact with a meager 100 mile range, if it isn’t too cold outside.
Just Tesla gets $1.8b in subsidies per year from US government alone.
https://newrepublic.com/article/175397/teslas-cheaper-now-thanks-subsidies-musk-hated
China has spent $57 billion over 7 years on EV subsidies. The US subsidies are buyer incentives which, until recently, were available for foreign vehicles as well. A Tesla sold in China does not get subsidized. Chinese subsidies have included large direct subsidies on the manufacturing.
I personally see direct subsidies to corporations as a last resort since corporations seem to use them for nothing but stock buy-backs.
Sounds like China wanted it more.
China has surpassed the West in EV adoption and electrification overall, and we are here eating Play-Doh in our Cybertrucks.
Certainly, but that doesn’t mean the US can be dependent on China for it’s transition. As stated further up, I am very much in favor of government intervention to force auto makers to sell a lot more electrics. The current regulations are terrible.
Current evs are terrible. They lose some mileage every year until the battery completely fails when it’s 10 to 20 years old. At that point, if you had an EV with an actual usable range as a total replacement vehicle, you’re looking at $15,000 to replace a battery. The entire half of the US that needs to buy older used vehicles is going to be screwed, while the other half are paying much more for their new vehicles. The average American can’t afford the average new car.
I buy used and our vehicles are a 2013 Nissan Leaf and a 2017 Chevy Volt. We had to replace the battery on the leaf last year and it was $9k. It’s still the most economical vehicle we’ve ever owned. It’s not taking us on any cross country trips, but it’s got the range we need as our primary vehicle.
You are not wrong, but for a whole lot of Americans there are vehicles that fit their needs. Forcing auto makers to sell more would also force them to lower prices or increase quality.
Dude. You had to spend $9,000 on a 6 year old battery in a short range car. I have a 2008 Prius with 249,000 miles on it, I change the oil myself, and I’ve spent a total of $3,800 on it, not counting fluid changes that I do at home. You spent more on a battery than I buy vehicles for.
It’s not a contest. The point was that there are affordable ways to go electric, so you’re just supporting my argument. Congrats on deushing your own oil, but where did you buy 5000+ gallons of gas for less than $3,800?
The same place you got free electricity, I guess.
Making hyperbolic generalized statements don’t really help your case.
Like “OMG you have to replace the battery after 10-20 years!”
How old is the oldest care you have ever owned? How much did you spend on maintenance in that time? Total Cost of Ownership matters.
I’m a really bad person to ask that. I’ve never bought a car (and I’m kind of old) newer than 10 years old and with one exception, I’ve never spent over $500 in a year on any maintenance or repairs. About 6 of those vehicles were sports cars. Most cars I buy I’ll keep a few years and then sale for 0 loss. I’m fully aware I’m the exception to the rule, but not enough to offset the EV cost. Older used EVs will be worth so much less than other cars. People will quickly learn that buying an old EV means they’ll have to tack on an extra $15k for a battery.
Good for you that you are recycling old cars. I do the same - our 2nd car is a 1993 Corolla with 275k on it. Drives fine. For you an EV doesn’t make sense and that’s just fine. But:
This is the sort of crap people spew when they can’t be bothered to research stuff and just use “facts” they “heard”. They generalize and round way up and now these are the new “facts”. I have to imagine you can do better.
Most are not six or $7k. In fact very few are. Just in this thread is a person who had to spend $9k to replace the battery on their 2017 Leaf. A subcompact with a meager 100 mile range, if it isn’t too cold outside.
He gets subsidies from the CCP too