I’ve just recently moved over to 11, because Windows 10 is going EOL in 2025. I needed to switch at some point anyways, so I might as well get it over with. I’m wondering if consumers can get access to LTSC releases of Windows though. Perhaps some form of enterprise edition, if LTSC editions aren’t publicly available.
The problem being of course that I can’t move from my precious Ableton Live and I really don’t want a MacBook. Before I installed 11 I tried it under wine, using Bazzite no less. Could’ve gone with a more music centric distribution, but everything points towards it not being stable for live usage - like at all, even with WineASIO. Couldn’t get the Push to register, and the buffer was hammered with just a little bit of processing. So, yeah…
My old Windows 10 install was Atlas OS, but now I’m trying Revision OS for 11. It must be doing something right for Windows Defender to quarantine one of it’s files. High praise from Caesar indeed. Revision is also a light modification, whereas Atlas OS pretty much nukes all the things - with varying effects and successes. In the end, they are community projects that obviously ruffle Microsoft’s feathers. So, yeah…
It’s a question of how to make a music workstation by choosing the right windows edition, or how to hack at the system until Microsoft limbs are gimped. Also, I don’t think I’ll need a printer spool. In any case, it’s a pain in my arse that I now also have to find a way to nuke Copilot. That will surely just wreck my buffer absolutely. “But you could use it for music creation”… what’s the fun in that?
In any case, please list your favourite key reseller sites. I might need to go shopping for something special, and Pro might not cut it.
Could you run fossilized and sandboxed in a VM? I run Tiny10 for a couple Windows applications that can’t run on Wine, completely offline so that there’s no need for updates. The system continues to work exactly how I want it to with no Microsoft Surprises.
One of the applications is for tax filing, so I finish the taxes, clone the VM, put the copy online and file. After it gets confirmation, I copy the database back to the fossilized version and wipe the copy. Been doing it for years now.
This is probably the best approach. You could pass thru relative USB ports and even a GPU to do things on the Windows VM that you can’t do in Wine.
But how does that work? Isn’t windows rigged to discover if you’re running it in a VM to go “sowwy :( but this is an enterprise feature. Money please~!”
Might be something patched in Tiny10 but it even activated fine for me with the usual hack and hasn’t caused any problems. I had to take it online momentarily on install to activate, but that was all.
If Linux really, really isn’t an option, you should consider switching to Mac. It’s still really similar to Linux (given it’s unix based), and doesn’t try to screw you over constantly like MS & Windows does.
I’m in the middle of divesting myself of all Microsoft products, and I will never, ever go back to Windows after the near-weekly horror show that Windows 11 has been. I’m still on Team Linux, but Mac is by far the next runner up.
Apple isn’t much better. Microsoft screws you on the software, and Apple screws you on the hardware (and a little on the software too).
Apple products are pretty much unrepairable at this point, and Apple seems to be doubling down when they can. From cryptographic parts pairing to banning manufacturers from selling chips to moving core components to the SOC (e.g. SSD controller), it’s usually cheaper to replace than repair, which is just bonkers when the part needed would only cost $20 but Apple will only fix it with a $1k+ board replacement.
And there’s little software things where they try to lock you in to their ecosystem.
That said, I’m not sure which is worse here. Pick the tradeoffs that work best for you. I’m just glad that Linux works well enough for my use case that I don’t need to choose between them.
That’s all definitely true, but when it comes to software, the shenanigans are all reserved for iPhone, iPad, and the like. MacOS is still really, really great IMO as it’s not as locked down as the mobile devices… it’s still very Linux-esque.
And all the devices are more repairable than people seem to think. Upgradeable? No. Repairable. Yes.
But yeah, I really wish more developers would make native Linux versions of their software available… then it’s an easy choice.
Hard disagree there. I use macOS at work and I’m constantly running into things that aren’t issues on Linux. For example:
docker containers run in a VM on macOS and as processes on Linux - result is much better perf and fewer bugs on Linux (I have to restart docker almost daily due to bugs)
two major package managers (homebrew and macports), yet neither is as nice as on Linux because they don’t manage system packages; I prefer macports, but both are a pain at release upgrade time, and I often need to “hide” outdated system stuff (e.g. Python and Ruby)
can’t replace the stuff I care about - desktop environment, init system, etc
drivers are only available if Apple says it’s okay - good luck with peripherals, which mostly just work on Linux
hardware choice is limited - can use Apple hardware or try your luck with a hackintosh
It’s way better than Windows, but it’s really not a Linux-like experience at all. And that’s preferable for some, and not for others.
And all the devices are more repairable than people seem to think. Upgradeable? No. Repairable. Yes.
Source?
Look at Louis Rossmann’s videos (a MacBook repair person) about this topic and tell me again that they’re repairable. With a straight face.
They’re really not. Here’s how they seem to handle stuff:
charge port goes bad? Board replacement.
water damage? Board replacement.
drive fails? No data recovery, and send it in for repairs.
screen cracks? Entire top assembly replacement.
display cable breaks? Entire top assembly replacement.
On pretty much any other, somewhat non-hostile product:
charge port goes bad? Replace charge port daughter board, or solder on a new chip/port.
water damage? Authorized repair person can attempt board level repair without a full replacement (much cheaper)
drive fails? User serviceable (could send in busted drive for recovery if you want)
screen cracks? Buy new glass and/or screen.
display cable breaks? Buy a new one for like $15.
native Linux versions of their software available
Or even just test it in WINE. Getting it to work properly with WINE is probably easier than supporting native Linux versions. That’s certainly the case for games, and probably the case for desktop software.
They can even distribute Appimage or Flatpak if they don’t want to deal with variations between distros.
A bit more involved indeed. It’s not like I didn’t try. The goal was to get it as good or as close to the performance you get in Windows.
Again, if you’re just using a mouse and keyboard to compose music, that’s okay, but you’ll put pressure on the Live engine buffer and most likely suffer dropouts - or buffer overruns - as soon as you add a little bit of processing. Juxtaposed to windows, that well runeth dry real quick.
Realtime MIDI and audio is even harder, because getting midi signals from several USB devices cleanly into wine is not as cut and dry as you’d think. There’d need to be some kind of pass thru on the kernel level to really get some of these MIDI devices working. Perhaps even pass thru of USB audio interfaces might be the ticket. But as is? NGL, kind of limited… and useless for me :/
Sadness.
EDIT: I was using the TKG version of wine, but this seems slightly better… might have to give it a retry. Good thing I left 200GB empty at the end of my SSD :P
I’ve just recently moved over to 11, because Windows 10 is going EOL in 2025. I needed to switch at some point anyways, so I might as well get it over with. I’m wondering if consumers can get access to LTSC releases of Windows though. Perhaps some form of enterprise edition, if LTSC editions aren’t publicly available.
The problem being of course that I can’t move from my precious Ableton Live and I really don’t want a MacBook. Before I installed 11 I tried it under wine, using Bazzite no less. Could’ve gone with a more music centric distribution, but everything points towards it not being stable for live usage - like at all, even with WineASIO. Couldn’t get the Push to register, and the buffer was hammered with just a little bit of processing. So, yeah…
My old Windows 10 install was Atlas OS, but now I’m trying Revision OS for 11. It must be doing something right for Windows Defender to quarantine one of it’s files. High praise from Caesar indeed. Revision is also a light modification, whereas Atlas OS pretty much nukes all the things - with varying effects and successes. In the end, they are community projects that obviously ruffle Microsoft’s feathers. So, yeah…
It’s a question of how to make a music workstation by choosing the right windows edition, or how to hack at the system until Microsoft limbs are gimped. Also, I don’t think I’ll need a printer spool. In any case, it’s a pain in my arse that I now also have to find a way to nuke Copilot. That will surely just wreck my buffer absolutely. “But you could use it for music creation”… what’s the fun in that?
In any case, please list your favourite key reseller sites. I might need to go shopping for something special, and Pro might not cut it.
Could you run fossilized and sandboxed in a VM? I run Tiny10 for a couple Windows applications that can’t run on Wine, completely offline so that there’s no need for updates. The system continues to work exactly how I want it to with no Microsoft Surprises.
One of the applications is for tax filing, so I finish the taxes, clone the VM, put the copy online and file. After it gets confirmation, I copy the database back to the fossilized version and wipe the copy. Been doing it for years now.
This is probably the best approach. You could pass thru relative USB ports and even a GPU to do things on the Windows VM that you can’t do in Wine.
But how does that work? Isn’t windows rigged to discover if you’re running it in a VM to go “sowwy :( but this is an enterprise feature. Money please~!”
Might be something patched in Tiny10 but it even activated fine for me with the usual hack and hasn’t caused any problems. I had to take it online momentarily on install to activate, but that was all.
If Linux really, really isn’t an option, you should consider switching to Mac. It’s still really similar to Linux (given it’s unix based), and doesn’t try to screw you over constantly like MS & Windows does.
I’m in the middle of divesting myself of all Microsoft products, and I will never, ever go back to Windows after the near-weekly horror show that Windows 11 has been. I’m still on Team Linux, but Mac is by far the next runner up.
Apple isn’t much better. Microsoft screws you on the software, and Apple screws you on the hardware (and a little on the software too).
Apple products are pretty much unrepairable at this point, and Apple seems to be doubling down when they can. From cryptographic parts pairing to banning manufacturers from selling chips to moving core components to the SOC (e.g. SSD controller), it’s usually cheaper to replace than repair, which is just bonkers when the part needed would only cost $20 but Apple will only fix it with a $1k+ board replacement.
And there’s little software things where they try to lock you in to their ecosystem.
That said, I’m not sure which is worse here. Pick the tradeoffs that work best for you. I’m just glad that Linux works well enough for my use case that I don’t need to choose between them.
That’s all definitely true, but when it comes to software, the shenanigans are all reserved for iPhone, iPad, and the like. MacOS is still really, really great IMO as it’s not as locked down as the mobile devices… it’s still very Linux-esque.
And all the devices are more repairable than people seem to think. Upgradeable? No. Repairable. Yes.
But yeah, I really wish more developers would make native Linux versions of their software available… then it’s an easy choice.
Hard disagree there. I use macOS at work and I’m constantly running into things that aren’t issues on Linux. For example:
It’s way better than Windows, but it’s really not a Linux-like experience at all. And that’s preferable for some, and not for others.
Source?
Look at Louis Rossmann’s videos (a MacBook repair person) about this topic and tell me again that they’re repairable. With a straight face.
They’re really not. Here’s how they seem to handle stuff:
On pretty much any other, somewhat non-hostile product:
Or even just test it in WINE. Getting it to work properly with WINE is probably easier than supporting native Linux versions. That’s certainly the case for games, and probably the case for desktop software.
They can even distribute Appimage or Flatpak if they don’t want to deal with variations between distros.
You know, it probably is the time to ask myself: who is the bigger evil? Microsoft or Apple?
I’ve boycotted Apple products for so long that I can barely remember my white clamshell MacBook… my special little boy T_T I miss it.
But anyways, maybe if I can’t find a way to make Windows stop being a little removed I might have to consider moving to a Mac :(
Unless Ableton ports live and max to Linux, in which case Fedora Atomic go brrrr.
For 11, not yet. For 10, i copied the iso from work. MS really don’t want to open the floodgates of LTSC for consumers.
But Ableton Live seems to work fine in wine and with pipewire-jack you get realtime audio.
Edit: seems realtime audio in wine is a bit more involved.
A bit more involved indeed. It’s not like I didn’t try. The goal was to get it as good or as close to the performance you get in Windows.
Again, if you’re just using a mouse and keyboard to compose music, that’s okay, but you’ll put pressure on the Live engine buffer and most likely suffer dropouts - or buffer overruns - as soon as you add a little bit of processing. Juxtaposed to windows, that well runeth dry real quick.
Realtime MIDI and audio is even harder, because getting midi signals from several USB devices cleanly into wine is not as cut and dry as you’d think. There’d need to be some kind of pass thru on the kernel level to really get some of these MIDI devices working. Perhaps even pass thru of USB audio interfaces might be the ticket. But as is? NGL, kind of limited… and useless for me :/
Sadness.
EDIT: I was using the TKG version of wine, but this seems slightly better… might have to give it a retry. Good thing I left 200GB empty at the end of my SSD :P
Bitwig works well in Linux. But you’d have to curate new plugins based on Linux compat. At least until CLAP plugins become ubiquitous