See that is the problem though. How does one reconcile when a PERSON is good and nice and all, yet their ACTIONS lead to direct suffering and harm to a lot of people?
And if Christians were as good as people keep claiming, then why are they not out in force:
Housing the homeless
Feeding the poor
Condemning SAers from their midst
Decrying school shootings
Protesting Israel’s genocide
Supporting and loving ALL PEOPLE from ALL NATIONS
Hmm? I don’t see it. I mean sure, some Churches do some small token gestures of that list, but it’s an afterthought, PR for the religion, look at us doing good deeds! They do a good deed here and there and then feel morally superior and their pastor has a private jet and 4 mansions, all the while people starve and die all around them. They don’t care. If they did the actions would show it and they don’t.
Just because you dont see it doesnt mean its not happening. You think so poorly of christians that youdont think they dont condemn people doing SA. This is just a cartoonish opinion of christians based on propaganda. “But I know christians!!” You see what you want to see in them, it does not reflect reality.
Again, from direct experience. It came to light that churches, including the one I grew up in had all been covering up repeat SA over DECADES. Quietly sweeping it under the rug, letting that person transfer to another church, and guess what happened there?
I’m not just making this up. These are ACTUAL things I know and have seen impacting both me and my family and friends.
Oh, and quick edit. It wasn’t just ONE isolated SA. It was entire LISTS of repeat offenders that were allowed to continue and NOT reported EVER.
Yes outliers exist and bad people exist inside the church, but why do you apply it to christians at large? Should I apply every dumb thing the left does to you?
I am making the argument based on both experience and the data we can all look up that the good ones in churches are the outliers, not the other way around.
But there’s honestly nothing I can say to convince you. You’ll have to either realize it for yourself one day or maybe not. And maybe you are fortunate enough to be surrounded by good people that aren’t doing these things and covering it all up. If so I’m glad, no one deserves that, especially from people they trusted and looked up to.
I think what is difficult to communicate is that once you’ve stepped out of that bubble and look back and realize just how much was being done and hidden or brushed aside it’s hard to go back. And claims of “not all Christians” sound exactly like “not all men” or “not all cops”. Yeah, we all realize that not literally 100% of a group does harm, but it’s more nuanced and at a certain point when there is repeat harm being done AND covered up and lied about it is “All” until they get the act together and make it “none”. If that makes sense.
I’m really not trying to attack YOU or your personal faith or anything. It’s more the institutions and series of actions (and inaction) that have been going on for far too long to continue to just ignore.
I just urge you to consider that if you ever come across something that you do the right thing, report it, support the victim, don’t conceal truth and protect someone you know is guilty to protect “the church” or “their family”. Because that’s what seems like is going on. SA happens and then other well meaning people cover it up probably to prevent more damage or a giant scene, but that perpetuates the problem.
Being “Left” is not the opposite of being “Christian”.
In fact, Jesus would be kicked out of the modern church for being a woke lib.
He said to love everyone.
He spoke out against the tax collectors and bankers and sales being done at the temple, remember him flipping the table story? How do you think he would view modern megachurches?
He said to give all your possessions away.
He went to the outcasts of his time. The lepers and prostitutes and poor and he helped them and treated them kindly.
He fed a bunch of people for free with the loaves and fish. That sounds pretty socialist or left to me.
My comments SADLY come directly from experience. Both my family and a lot of former close friends think exactly that way.
They ALL voted for Trump and even today all these years later seeing it clearly will STILL double down on it.
So no, not a straw man at all. I wish it was. I wish it was…
I am sorry you have such a low opinions of your family and close friends. I personally doubt they are as bad as you believe.
See that is the problem though. How does one reconcile when a PERSON is good and nice and all, yet their ACTIONS lead to direct suffering and harm to a lot of people?
And if Christians were as good as people keep claiming, then why are they not out in force:
Hmm? I don’t see it. I mean sure, some Churches do some small token gestures of that list, but it’s an afterthought, PR for the religion, look at us doing good deeds! They do a good deed here and there and then feel morally superior and their pastor has a private jet and 4 mansions, all the while people starve and die all around them. They don’t care. If they did the actions would show it and they don’t.
Don’t care what is said, show me the actions.
Just because you dont see it doesnt mean its not happening. You think so poorly of christians that youdont think they dont condemn people doing SA. This is just a cartoonish opinion of christians based on propaganda. “But I know christians!!” You see what you want to see in them, it does not reflect reality.
Again, from direct experience. It came to light that churches, including the one I grew up in had all been covering up repeat SA over DECADES. Quietly sweeping it under the rug, letting that person transfer to another church, and guess what happened there?
I’m not just making this up. These are ACTUAL things I know and have seen impacting both me and my family and friends.
Oh, and quick edit. It wasn’t just ONE isolated SA. It was entire LISTS of repeat offenders that were allowed to continue and NOT reported EVER.
It makes me sick to think about it.
Yes outliers exist and bad people exist inside the church, but why do you apply it to christians at large? Should I apply every dumb thing the left does to you?
I am making the argument based on both experience and the data we can all look up that the good ones in churches are the outliers, not the other way around.
But there’s honestly nothing I can say to convince you. You’ll have to either realize it for yourself one day or maybe not. And maybe you are fortunate enough to be surrounded by good people that aren’t doing these things and covering it all up. If so I’m glad, no one deserves that, especially from people they trusted and looked up to.
I think what is difficult to communicate is that once you’ve stepped out of that bubble and look back and realize just how much was being done and hidden or brushed aside it’s hard to go back. And claims of “not all Christians” sound exactly like “not all men” or “not all cops”. Yeah, we all realize that not literally 100% of a group does harm, but it’s more nuanced and at a certain point when there is repeat harm being done AND covered up and lied about it is “All” until they get the act together and make it “none”. If that makes sense.
I’m really not trying to attack YOU or your personal faith or anything. It’s more the institutions and series of actions (and inaction) that have been going on for far too long to continue to just ignore.
I just urge you to consider that if you ever come across something that you do the right thing, report it, support the victim, don’t conceal truth and protect someone you know is guilty to protect “the church” or “their family”. Because that’s what seems like is going on. SA happens and then other well meaning people cover it up probably to prevent more damage or a giant scene, but that perpetuates the problem.
But why should I not have the same opinion and apply the bad things that the left does to you and people like you?
Being “Left” is not the opposite of being “Christian”.
In fact, Jesus would be kicked out of the modern church for being a woke lib.
He said to love everyone. He spoke out against the tax collectors and bankers and sales being done at the temple, remember him flipping the table story? How do you think he would view modern megachurches? He said to give all your possessions away. He went to the outcasts of his time. The lepers and prostitutes and poor and he helped them and treated them kindly.
He fed a bunch of people for free with the loaves and fish. That sounds pretty socialist or left to me.
No?