“Out of the 61 individual vendors and businesses that they were able to interview, only a handful — around five — were fully against the idea of moving the Market in a more pedestrian-oriented direction. “In this group of vendors, we found that they think the street works well, and they didn’t see any conflicts between pedestrians and private vehicles, believing the cars add to the market’s character and are needed for business purposes and bulk loads,” the pair wrote in a summary of their research.”
And I don’t anyone is arguing against cars for business purposes or bulk loads… so that’s kind of a red herring.
Also, cars adding to the market’s character? Really? I mean bullshit all you want, but maybe be a teensy bit less shameless about it. Literally nobody thinks that.
““The idea (of a car-less Pike Place) was finally implemented a decade or more ago by the Market landlord for one month during high summer season,” King wrote. “The results were a disaster for merchants in the four floors of retail below street level, known collectively as Down Under…. And so quietly the results of the ‘car free’ experiment in the Pike Place Market were shelved. It turned out that cars on Pike Place served as people distributors, forcing pedestrians to take a variety of routes to wind their way through the Market.””
Honestly, if that’s an argument being made, then there’s no argument at all for not closing it. Seriously. “Cars push pedestrians into corners because their driving conflicts so much with walking traffic that it pushes pedestrians off the main street” is fucking INSANE to say out loud as if it was a great point.
Like, let’s get creative about advertising the lower levels (and going there ourselves!) and close the fuckin street so lost tourists aren’t driving inches away from megatons of pedestrians.
Do you not think it’s odd that the non-profit Freinds of the Market, the organization that actually saved the market in the first place is against closing the street. An organization whose ongoing goal is “Support and promote activities to ensure Pike Place Market’s historic and traditional use as a farmers’ market.”
I feel like many of the most vocal advocates for shutting down the street are ones who never actually use Pike Place as a market, but instead see it as a fun place to go out to lunch or look at the craft tables.
I’ve been in enough organizations to know that what the people running the organization want and what’s best for everyone are often different things. I read what you wrote elsewhere in the thread and I think you’re right, it needs to be addressed.
-but-
I think we can be creative enough to have the groceries and market goods find their ways to cars while also finding a way to stop having tourists accidentally turn into the market and almost run people over because seriously, all of us have seen a kid dart or a tourist not pay attention and that shit happens ALL THE DAMN TIME.
And I think 5 out of 61 vendors being against it means we should probably have already been looking for alternate solutions and the people that are just saying no should know when it’s a losing cause and start coming up with ideas that get them what they need to succeed.
There are possible solutions, like a voucher to enter that vendors could hand out to customers. The problem is the traffic density of 1st and Pike and the problems of clueless tourists doesn’t go away. There is not an easy turnaround for a car that doesn’t have a voucher and now your holding up traffic in an intersection, you see it every time the market does shutdown traffic. Cars at least go slow through the market, 1st is way more of a public safety issue with the speed for cars getting stuck and trying to turn around.
The Urbanist had a story on this that was linked by Publicola and it looks pretty straight forward to me.
https://www.theurbanist.org/2023/10/12/most-vendors-dont-oppose-pedestrianizing-pike-place-market-survey-shows/
“Out of the 61 individual vendors and businesses that they were able to interview, only a handful — around five — were fully against the idea of moving the Market in a more pedestrian-oriented direction. “In this group of vendors, we found that they think the street works well, and they didn’t see any conflicts between pedestrians and private vehicles, believing the cars add to the market’s character and are needed for business purposes and bulk loads,” the pair wrote in a summary of their research.”
And I don’t anyone is arguing against cars for business purposes or bulk loads… so that’s kind of a red herring.
Also, cars adding to the market’s character? Really? I mean bullshit all you want, but maybe be a teensy bit less shameless about it. Literally nobody thinks that.
““The idea (of a car-less Pike Place) was finally implemented a decade or more ago by the Market landlord for one month during high summer season,” King wrote. “The results were a disaster for merchants in the four floors of retail below street level, known collectively as Down Under…. And so quietly the results of the ‘car free’ experiment in the Pike Place Market were shelved. It turned out that cars on Pike Place served as people distributors, forcing pedestrians to take a variety of routes to wind their way through the Market.””
Honestly, if that’s an argument being made, then there’s no argument at all for not closing it. Seriously. “Cars push pedestrians into corners because their driving conflicts so much with walking traffic that it pushes pedestrians off the main street” is fucking INSANE to say out loud as if it was a great point.
Like, let’s get creative about advertising the lower levels (and going there ourselves!) and close the fuckin street so lost tourists aren’t driving inches away from megatons of pedestrians.
Do you not think it’s odd that the non-profit Freinds of the Market, the organization that actually saved the market in the first place is against closing the street. An organization whose ongoing goal is “Support and promote activities to ensure Pike Place Market’s historic and traditional use as a farmers’ market.”
I feel like many of the most vocal advocates for shutting down the street are ones who never actually use Pike Place as a market, but instead see it as a fun place to go out to lunch or look at the craft tables.
I’ve been in enough organizations to know that what the people running the organization want and what’s best for everyone are often different things. I read what you wrote elsewhere in the thread and I think you’re right, it needs to be addressed.
-but-
I think we can be creative enough to have the groceries and market goods find their ways to cars while also finding a way to stop having tourists accidentally turn into the market and almost run people over because seriously, all of us have seen a kid dart or a tourist not pay attention and that shit happens ALL THE DAMN TIME.
And I think 5 out of 61 vendors being against it means we should probably have already been looking for alternate solutions and the people that are just saying no should know when it’s a losing cause and start coming up with ideas that get them what they need to succeed.
There are possible solutions, like a voucher to enter that vendors could hand out to customers. The problem is the traffic density of 1st and Pike and the problems of clueless tourists doesn’t go away. There is not an easy turnaround for a car that doesn’t have a voucher and now your holding up traffic in an intersection, you see it every time the market does shutdown traffic. Cars at least go slow through the market, 1st is way more of a public safety issue with the speed for cars getting stuck and trying to turn around.