A human rights monitor documented the sniping of at least 13 children in and around Shifa Hospital, all between the ages of 4 and 16.
The chokehold Israeli Intelligence / Propaganda wing has on reddits worldnews subreddit is freakin depressing (and scary in how total it is).
Post anything even remotely critical to anything Israel did and within minutes you’ll have a dozen downvotes and people outright warping reality in their response to you, all on relatively recent accounts that only ever respond to posts related to Israel. They aren’t subtle about it in the slightest.
And stories like them murdering foreign aid workers on purpose just get magicked away.
Israel has an app that’s used to target various sites etc. with propaganda. It has various material for people to post, guides on how to post/sign up to platforms, premade memes, etc. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Caelan Conrad (I believe) used to have a video up on the subject, where they used and walked through the app, but it’s mysteriously gone missing. Act.il’s own YouTube channel remains, though.
TIL, why my comments get downvoted. At this point, I’m not even mad.
Wow, just like when you post anything remotely supportive of Israel or derogative of the Palestinian backwards society on lemmy?
How could it be?
But on no account should you consider yourself wrong. That can’t happen. Propaganda works only one way and not the other. Whenever there’s evidence of Hamas storing weapons or launching rockets next to schools and hospitals, it’s fake news. It’s source that can’t be trusted. But whenever something aligns with your beliefs that’s 100% true, evidence not required. Even now you are claiming they killed foreign aid workers on purpose when there was no investigation and no such claim anywhere. But it fits your narrative.
I don’t want to know what it does to a society when casually sniping 4 year olds is completely ok and accepted. After Gaza is razed, all of these soldiers will return as heroes, but will they be able to stop their habits?
I’m beginning to think many of them joined up specifically for the the purpose of slaughtering children. It feels like they’ve even dropped the pretense of all Palestinians being Hamas - at least I don’t hear them making that excuse all that much anymore. They seem to just enjoy the killing.
EDIT: Apparently military service in Israel is mandatory. I guess murdering Palestinian children en masse is just a bonus.
I’m not excusing any of their actions, because I’m genuinely horrified by Israel’s conduct, but the IDF is a conscripted military force. Every Israeli, excluding some ultra-orthodox extremists who get a controversial religious exemption, is required to serve a certain amount of time in the military after they turn 18. There are alternative public service options for conscientious objectors, but most 18 year olds end up with a rifle in their hand. That’s pretty fucked up if you ask me.
That means the majority of the soldiers perpetrating these atrocities are basically children themselves. They didn’t join so they could do a genocide, they joined because they had to, and are doing a genocide. I’m sure some of them are sick fuckers who enjoy it, but most are probably just following despicable, immoral, unforgivable orders from superiors. That’s not a justification, just an unfortunate likelihood.
That said, yes, it does seem like they’ve dropped the pretense.
I’d believe that more if they weren’t on Tik Tok laughing and joking about the horrific acts they’re doing, like demolishing whole neighborhoods, destroying hospitals, and killing people.
I’m pretty sure that in Israel, joining the military is not a choice.
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Yeah I heard many of the like eating babies as well. Hamas is there just as an excuse but in reality they are the good guys who just like drinking tea.
Yes that 4 year old should have renounced hamas the second he got within range.
I guess the thousands of dead women and children just did not condemn Hamas hard enough.
This is what unchecked conservatism looks like. Genocide.
That’s what war looks like. It’s disgusting. All of them are and always gruesome towards innocent.
This is not war. It’s just mass murder. If this was war, the conservatives would be targeting at least some combatants. The IDF intentionally targets civilians and aid workers. This is not what war is. This is what genocide is.
It was declared as war, it is being fought as war. It’s war. Technically in every aspect. The fact they are stronger means nothing. How do you know IDF is intentionally targeting civilians and then letting other 2 million of them go is a mystery to me but it’s not genocide because it’s not by definition “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”, because had that been the case, there would be no Gaza left, there would be no aid, there would be no humanitarian corridor.
Good thing there is no war in Ukraine, right? Your “logic” doesn’t make any sense.
We know they are intentionally targetting civillians because of all the incidents that happen. Yaknow, for decades actually. The kneecappings, the shooting at protesters, the shooting at medics who provide emergency care. It’s not up to debate - it is what they do and have always done.
Also your definition of genocide is shit - since it also covers forced displacement.
Also, there is no aid. What gets in is a fraction of a fraction of what’s needed. Who gives a shit that bottles of water, 20000 of them came in, when all that does is at best serve a single day for 20k people out of 2 million? Everything gets searched and often denied. There are countless aid trucks waiting on the other side of the border. Even what US was dropping was a tiny part of the need. Compared to the Berlin airlift, all this is, is showing idiots “look we give aid everything is fine”.
What humanitarian corridor too? The one where people get shot at with artillery?
You are either a troll, or a pelican that swallows every propaganda piece someone throws at you.
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Buddy, I literally have coworkers in Gaza that I am in constant contact with. I know a doctor that was in Al Shifa when the last assaults happened when it was still operating. I know people who were shot by Israelis. I know people who lost their entire family to a bomb that levelled a house right across the street from their house. You implying that “an inflated opinion of myself” makes all of this be false simply because you are the “enlightened one” is just sickening.
Forced displacement is in the UN definition of genocide tho
You are the troll, troll.
Do you really believe the IDF could so blatantly destroy all of Palestine without anyone noticing? The Israeli state would crumble without western support, they have to maintain plausible deniability. But their own policies state they don’t recognize Palestine.
Dude that’s literally what’s happening right now… they are trying to destroy all of palestine, we all have noticed, and it is crumbling… they are maintaining deniability even through bold-faced examples to the contrary… why you are saying is literally happening
You are right, I have been a little out of the loop on recent international reactions, I was surprised to read a recent UN report outlining the atrocities so effectively. Last I heard they are still allowing arms sales from the US though which is what I meant more specifically
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No it isn’t. What’s disgusting is you covering for war crimes.
Fuck Israel. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
I can’t imagine being a person who sees 4 year old kid in a scope and just shoots them…
Like. … what goes through their head…do they have their own kids… what they do in their free time…
I just cant imagine person like that.
At this point I’m afraid we can look at Nazis (oh the irony…) to understand those Israelis. The similarities of soulless brutality are pretty obvious…
Not ironic. Direct continuity; Israeli precursors helped with the holocaust. More tried, but hitler, for the first and last time in his life, was the least unreasonable dipshit in the room and told them no.
Listen to how a large portion (obviously not all) Israelis talk about Palestinians. They genuinely do not view them as humans and certainly do not value their lives. They speak of the ongoing genocide with gleeful anticipation. People will literally go to the border to taunt Palestinian parents who’ve lost their children or the orphans themselves.
They’re not shooting a 4 year old kid, they’re simply shooting another “worthless” Palestinian. This way of thinking was and is specifically crafted to enable almost every genocide that has ever happened.
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Okay if I had a friend like that they definitely wouldn’t be my friend for long.
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people will
Those aren’t people. Thinking of them as people is going to make stopping the genocide harder than it has to be, and will cost human lives.
No, they are people. Ignorant, hateful, and actively supporting a genocide, but people nonetheless. My comment was explicitly calling out and criticizing the impulse to dehumanize the “enemy”, real or imagined. Thinking of Zionist Israelis or Nazis as less than human not only perpetuates the mindset that allows these groups to carry out genocide, but at the same time denies how easy it is for average people to fall into such traps.
It leads to thought processes similar to “If you have to be less than human to support a genocide, then obviously what I support can’t be genocide because I am definitely a human.”
And I’m definitely not one of those “oh, we just have to talk to these hateful ignorant perpetuators of genocide because they simply don’t understand why they’re wrong”. I’m of the opinion that violence is absolutely necessary to uphold equality if the situation has been left to get as bad as it has. I’m mostly just railing against the idea that people who support genocide are somehow less human because of that hatred.
They will not stop until they’re killed, they’ll say it themselves if you ask them.
Theres nothing else to them but the killing, and things that support the killing-I looked in my own conversations with them, and asking some refugees-not palestinian refugees, but queer kids they threw away like trash, because of course they fucking do that, if there was anything worth keeping, anything they missed from ‘home’, and it was always only the ancient stuff and the Palestinian stuff. Even I miss things about the places I’m from.
And every fucking one of them knows. They’re so obsessively about the genocide. Its like once the topic comes up, there’s nothing else to them. Because there’s not.
They leave no other out, and I think all the things that make ‘genocide’ bad don’t apply here. Destroying a culture-either you think they’re Jewish, like they claim, and Jewish culture in the entire rest of the world keeps on ticking, or youve talked to one and know they’re disgusting goblin monsters who have no culture. Nothing is lost. killing innocents- but there are no innocents. Every one of them over the age of like 14 is guilty, and irredeemable. just killing shit tons of stuff, usually people. Sometimes not-buffalo for example but this is going to happen anyway, and they’re not going to stop killing, so youre not choosing that killing happens; youre doing the trolley problem. And I’m of the opinion that oppressor lives are worth less than shit-at least shit makes good fertilizer. there’s no point except this time there would be. There are people who need saving. People who have been discarded by the world too many fucking times, and I think letting them keep getting thrown away because we’re too precious about their oppressors is fucking monstrous.
Except it gets worse. Because cultural genocide is, by lemkin’s original definition if not the UN convention; still genocide; taking away the things that enable their culture to exist and reproduce itself would be committing a genocide, but genocide is their entire culture (watch what happens when they’re finished with Palestine), so even completely peacefully stopping the genocide, lets say proving we’re in a simulation, doing a breakout attack, getting root, and disabling PvP flags for the whole middle east, would be a genocide of the kapostanis. I genuinely cannot imagine how they would handle it. Mass suicide? Raiding africa for slaves? It would certainly not be fun to watch.
Given that I don’t know we’re in a simulation, I have no idea how to do a breakout attack on the ten year old computer I’m sitting in front if, and that anything you do to stop the genocide of the Palestinians would completely destroy ‘Israeli’ culture, I’m happy to just see them all dead. They chose to be this. And they’re kind of literally Nazis. If grandpa and video ganes taught me one lesson: killing Nazis is always good, and if history has taught me one lesson, its that we always let too many of them live after, and they fuck everything up for decades.
If any of them don’t want to be genocided, they could just leave, or if you think they’re still human, stop actively committing genocide at any point. But they don’t do that. They get offended if you tell them they could.
Yeah, I agree with everything you just said, but make no mistake, the monsters committing genocide are still human beings. Denying that blurs the line of the purpose of violence done against them and makes it difficult to understand that we must constantly be vigilant against rhetoric and propaganda that advocates for genocide as it is scarily easy for people to fall into patterns of thinking that can justify genocide.
It is irresponsible to say that, because they are actively committing genocide against a population, they are no longer human beings and that is why they deserve violence. It’s an unnecessary extra step that opens the door for the very same genocidal thinking. They are people who have engaged in genocide with no signs of slowing down or stopping, and for that one reason alone, deserve violence until their threat is quashed. That is enough for me; I see no reason or benefit to dehumanize them to justify righteous violence.
I think being biologically human is not morally important to me. You could clone my own muscle tissue(assuming you find any) and I would have no objection to trying it on a bun. Nor to you making a fleshlight and fucking it; you do you.
These things… There’s nothing to them but violence. And that’s important to remember; they can’t be negotiated with, because there’s nothing else they want, nothing else they are. They want to kill rape mutilate and ruin, and they won’t stop til they’re dead. This isnt me being a bigot; they’ll tell you that them fucking selves! They’re really fucking consistent about it! There is no diplomatic option, and no surrender they offer could be trusted, if they’re even still capable of surrender.
Even if you could prove we live in a simulation, perform a breakout attack, and disable PvP flags for the middle east, a mavical perfect solution that instantly stops the bloodshed with no threats or coercion; you would still be comitting genocide on the kapostanis, in the same way exterminating the buffalo was a genocide of the plains tribes of north america. More so, maybe. Their entire culture, and its modes of cultural reproduction (killing and raping and generally thinking of new ways to be awful towards Palestinians, importing settlers to stolen land, etc) would be destroyed. A people would he undone. Until they just decided to fucking do slave raids into Africa or whatever shit. And if they’re so Fucking vile that they do paradox soft tolerance on stopping a Fucking genocide, I don’t think preserving their lives merits much thought.
I think they need to be killed (are we in a simulation? Can you un-pvp an area?), and if we’re going to be doing genocide (by stopping then from doing a genocide), i cabt think of any way to do it but killing them (fwiw, the head of MSF agrees). And I think you’re making it harder for the angry 19 year olds who are going to have to pull the triggers. Those kids don’t need more PTSD than they’re already gonna get from this, y’know?
Plus by insisting they’re human, youre leaving more room for their bad faith bullshit and appropriation of (all) Jewishness, which could get real people killed, and not just by delaying an end to their genocide. People are going to die because of this shit, Human people, all over the world, who are at worst wrong and kind of shitty about this, and at best doing their damdest to stop it, and in every case don’t deserve to fucking die. You’re increasing the potential for splash damage and innocent lives to be lost by calling kapostani’s human.
I’d love if there were a solution other than violence. Violence fucking sucks. Fuck, aside from the human costb there are no green wars, you know? The climate does not need this shit, I really wish they could and would just Fucking Stop.
But talk to one. They’ll tell you themselves; can’t stop won’t stop. So its harm reduction time. And I don’t cry over spilled Nazi. Neither should you.
This is becoming frustrating. We are on the same page that violence is the only answer; I’m only insisting that we understand that the violence has to be done against our fellow humans. It is a tragedy, but one that must be enacted because, as you say, there is no negotiation to be had here.
Denying their humanity weakens the claim of righteousness and, moreso than enabling room for their bad faith bullshit, directly feeds into their bad faith claims of antisemitism as dehumanizing them removes genocide from the argument and all your left with is killing animals/barbarians/evil monsters. I don’t know about you, but that argument is wholly unconvincing to me. You can certainly claim that because they’ve engaged in genocide, that’s why they’ve lost their humanity, but again, it’s an unnecessary mental step that gains us nothing and weakens the argument for deploying violence against them.
For the soldier / PTSD argument, I again disagree. Soldiers kill people. There should be no way around that fact. Dehumanization and making it easier for soldiers to mentally compartmentalize the taking of life is not a good thing and can easily be warped to make soldiers follow any order, regardless of the moral imperative. The soldiers can and should be made to understand that they are committing a traumatic amount of violence and death in order to stop an entire genocide. Violence is a tool and it must be wielded responsibly and with full understanding that the violence is both necessary and just.
Also chill with the faux philosophical ramblings of simulations and video game analogies. I don’t care what you believe outside of this context, but this is a serious issue and talking about “disabl[ing] PvP flags for the middle east” belies that this is the real world (simulated or not) with real, serious consequences. It damages your entire argument and makes you come across like you don’t see the actual human pain and suffering this massacre has caused.
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They aren’t people anymore. If they ever were. They differentiated into Israelis instead.
I’d like to know who’s downvoting this, besides the state trolls
There’s a small but angry and vocal contingent of Israel supporters around here. The other day one got mad at me because I said the IDF’s report of killing 200 terrorists in the hospital in Gaza was bullshit and it was bullshit specifically because it came from the IDF and you can’t trust a word they say.
I was in a gas station around UNC Chapel Hill of all places standing in line behind a couple younger guys who were saying insane things about how Palestine’s not a real state, they’re just migrant squatters and seemed to mock anyone hurt or killed that opposed Israel. They reminded me of ‘Murican’s talking about how strong and right America is, but from the Jewish perspective with Israel in its stead.
It’s hard to describe how sickening it was to hear. And they’re like, 20.
I take issue with something you said-
They reminded me of ‘Murican’s talking about how strong and right America is, but from the Jewish perspective with Israel in its stead.
I am Jewish. I do not have that perspective. A large number of Jews do not have that perspective and do not support Israel or its genocide. Many of us also advocate for Palestinian independence and an end to apartheid.
Please don’t take it as all Jews just as American morons don’t represent all Americans. My apology, I thought that was obvious.
No worries, I just wanted to clarify just in case.
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Just screw them. As long as people can read it’s that’s what matters.
Though I’m always a bit conflicted about upvote/ liking. I usually upvote something that, I like. But I don’t like this, I truly hate reading this kind of stuff. It’s horrifying and I wish it would stop.
I upvote for visibility. The more awareness, the more pressure from public opinion.
Same. Upvote if I think it’s important for others to see.
And won’t do a damn thing. Just how Facebook likes are not stopping Russia’s invasion upvoting/downvoting will have exactly zero effect on this conflict as well. On one side Israel will ensure this time that this never happens again, on the other only acceptable outcome for Palestine is death of every Israeli, which is not happening.
World will criticize. Israel will win and there will be calm for some years before Hamas goes for the blood again and people call Israel genocidal nation once again. It’s a frighteningly short cycle and people keep forgetting it every time.
The The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 in Zionist thought and the displacement of Palestinians since the 1920s culminated into a full-fledged ethnic cleansing campaign in 1948. Plan Dalet with Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948) Partition and later the Two-State Solution have been wielded by Israel to covet and annex as much Palestinian land as possible with the least amount of Palestinians.
Before 1948, Palestinian Leadership repeatedly advocated for a Unitary Binational State for decades: Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928, Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937, Arab League advocating for Unified State 1948
After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. Despite this, both Fatah and later Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation. This is apartheid.
Oslo Accords MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
What Is Hamas? - Council on Foreign Relations
What Does Hamas Actually Want? - NY Mag
Hamas Election - Snopes
Hamas 1988 Charter and Revised 2017 Charter
The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. The 2017 Revised charter accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter
Goddamn you don’t ever shush up, do you? Just loud and wrong.
This stopped being a war and started being a genocide at some point, but the government and media just won’t say it and I’m tired of it.
Yeah and that point was in 1948.
Decades of Western impunity, and an entire political and media infrastructure that has enabled Israel’s crimes against humanity, have led to Israel disassociating itself from a world where actions have consequences, or where the truth of what it says matters. And the events of the past 48 hours—including the bombing of an Iranian embassy and the brazen killing of seven aid workers in Gaza—have proved that Israel seemingly feels entitled to plunder and sow death and destruction as it pleases.
It’s obvious why israel is becoming more and more arrogant in their crimes; Biden is always giving them the green light. And they know it by now. They have tested again and again how far they can go and now know there are literally no limits for what Biden will support.
Blowing up all hospitals. Literally starving all Palestinians to death like a Nazi concentration camp. Nothing goes to far for Genocide Joe.
That’s right, just Biden. No previous president was ever in full support of Israel.
Indeed every single previous American president would have already stopped israeli by now. Genocide Joe is by far biggest Zionist president in American history
There were three times in the past that israel violated human rights so hard that American presidents threatened arms embargoes or threatened to cut off israeli loan guarantees. The most recent one is George Bush.
Although Israel and its supporters went into a frenzy, with one Israeli cabinet minister calling the U.S. president an “antisemite” and a “liar,” Bush Sr. prevailed. On Oct. 2, 1991, the U.S. Senate formally acceded to Bush’s request for a 120-day postponement. Furthermore, because of Shamir’s determination to expand settlements, the loans were not released until well beyond the postponement period, after the election of a more moderate Israeli government led by Yitzhak Rabin.
When I spoke to him in 2003, Baker told me, “We said to Rabin, ‘we’ll release the $10 billion if you agree to substantially restrict settlement activity,’ and he did.”
In these cases israel did far less human rights violation than the full scale Genocide they are committing right now. Genocide Joe is exceptional in his support to let israel kill every single Palestinian.
every single previous American president would have already stopped israeli by now
Fine, every single president except Trump. Happy now?
No. I don’t have any obvious counter-evidence I’m aware of, but I don’t bare the burden of proof. You need to show evidence that every single other president would have done as you say. It’s a very big claim that requires a lot of evidence, and frankly I don’t believe it’s true.
Maybe not every president since as you say that requires a lot of evidence and is likely unprovable, but I firmly believe that the majority would’ve stopped Israel by now. I mean, hell, even objectively horrible people like George Bush and Regan did it. Hell, even Biden did it in 2021. What I want to say is: Biden letting Israel rampage like this is the exception, not the norm. For evidence, I think the fact that Israel has needed to exercise at least a modicum of restraint and not commit actual genocide until now is enough.
I firmly believe
Without evidence
not commit actual genocide
Israel is currently in the process of committing an actual genocide. I think that’s why the Biden administration is holding an investigation; because if they can publish a finding that Israel is using American weapons they can then withhold aid without anyone being able to make legal trouble. Because of the way our treaties work, Biden is compelled to supply aid to Israel until he’s legally forbidden from doing so. In the meantime, there’s reports that he’s begun using back-door beurocratic BS to slow aid down as much as he’s legally able to.
Now maybe all of that is baseless rumors being spread by braindead Biden cheerleaders, but it’s also entirely possible that it’s true. You have no basis for your assertion that Biden is even doing worse than average, so stop trying to act like it’s an established fact.
TLDR: your argument is uncogent.
As much of a Moron as Trump is, even he is starting to turn around now
“You have to finish up your war … You gotta get it done. And I am sure you will do that. And we gotta get to peace, we can’t have this going on. And I will say, Israel has to be very careful, because you’re losing a lot of the world, you’re losing a lot of support,” he told the newspaper.
When asked how he would have countered a rise in anti-Semitism that followed the Hamas attacks and Israel’s response, Mr Trump appeared to blame the images of Israeli bombings coming out of Gaza.
“Well, that’s because you fought back,” he said. “And I think Israel made a very big mistake. I wanted to call [Israel] and say don’t do it. These photos and shots. I mean, moving shots of bombs being dropped into buildings in Gaza. And I said, Oh, that’s a terrible portrait. It’s a very bad picture for the world. The world is seeing this … every night, I would watch buildings pour down on people.”
When even Donald Trump turns with the winds, it’s looking like Biden literally can’t do worse
Oh wow, you actually believe that…
Oh wow I linked three examples and you actually didn’t read any of them.
You believe this because of propaganda. Enjoy your brain rot.
