• somefool@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      I don’t feel like that’s a fair comparison. Meat consumption has a lot of issues, but the consumer, at the end of the production chain, does not eat his steak with the mindset of “how much more can I make an animal suffer for the lulz, and can we take pliers to it first?”. Mostly, they are apathetic or unaware. (Disclosure: I have reduced meat a lot myself but am not entirely out yet and I keep giving myself B12 deficiency.)

      I’d compare with much higher in the production chain, the people who devised and enforce inhumane practices.

      • NotAPenguin@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        But people are aware, they know meat is animals, they actively choose not to actually think about it and change their ways.

        Even you who just said you know also admit you’re still eating meat.

        Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.

        btw. you should definitely be taking a B12 supplement, the animals you eat are fed the supplement so when you stop eating meat you need to take the supplement yourself.

        • somefool@beehaw.orgOP
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          1 year ago

          I am taking supplements, but I need to figure my shit out because I fuck up either on the B12 or iron, each time. My first “bad” B12 deficiency came with some nerve issues and I do not want a repeat of that, it doesn’t entirely go away.

          My goal is to entirely cut out meat, though. Right now, I don’t buy it for home food, but if I’m out with friends or coworkers, I’ll get whatever. It’s iterative, and as more alternatives become available in public places, I’ll get there.

          • Joe@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            That’s how I started too, and now I’m a die hard vegan :)

            If your goal is in that direction, don’t get yourself down when you hit setbacks. I can thrive now, but when I was first beginning my journey I struggled a lot with eating out, especially abroad.

            A setback doesn’t mean you can’t keep moving forward

    • Deceptichum@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Imagine being such an unbelievable dumbarse that you think mindless torture is the same as natural carnivorous dietary habits.

      • Joe@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        You’re calling someone an unbelievable dumbarse and then immediately using a logical fallacy, who’s the dumbarse here?

        An appeal to nature is a pathetic defense. It’s natural to rape and murder too, but obviously we recognise that those are negative things that should be avoided. Why do you think needlessly killing an animal is any different?

      • NotAPenguin@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.

          • Killakomodo@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Plants are living things too, right? So why is it ok to eat them but not animals? Are you saying we should not eat plants too, because it also harm a living thing and we should all just die?

            How about any carnivorous animals (which surprise, we are partially) do they need to stop eating meat too?

            • Joe@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              You misunderstand the ethics of veganism. Vegans aim to reduce suffering. So far, science points to most animals being likely to suffer similarly to how we as humans suffer, since we share evolutionary history and similar biological systems.

              Plants do not share these systems, nor have any evolutionary pressure to be able to suffer or feel pain, since they would not be able to do anything about it anyway

              It’s not a blanket “living things are sacred”

              Furthermore, if you really cared at all about the poor suffering plants, you’d know that the vast vast majority of plants grown by humans are fed inefficiently to animals. So, by going vegan, you’d be hugely reducing the number of plants you are causing harm to

              Finally, carnivorous animals have literally nothing to do with veganism. Please stop trying to discredit a movement you don’t even understand

            • NotAPenguin@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Most farmed plants are used as animal feed, eating plants directly uses much less.
              So even if this nonsense argument had any validity veganism would still be the answer.

              Humans have the capability to consider the consequences of our actions, other animals don’t.

              Lions sometimes eat their kids, should it be okay for humans to do the same because lions do it?

      • Thatch@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        For big slaughter houses etc it is the same. The animals there a tortured on a daily basis. I’m not saying all meat eaters are evil, there are small local farms where animals can live a good life. But the large scale industrial meat (and dairy) production is just this.

        • sab@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Unless the only reason you’re enjoying your beef is because you enjoy thinking about how the animal was suffering to produce it, the two are not the same.

          I’m not saying the meat industry isn’t evil, but it’s not torture for the sake of torture. They just don’t give a shit and are only concerned about profits, which is messed up but not the same.

            • NubTubz@beehaw.org
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              1 year ago

              In the meat industry, animal suffering is not the goal. The goal is to deliver as much product (food in this case) to the consumer as cheaply as possible. Animal suffering is a byproduct of this because on a large enough scale, both the consumer and the capitalists running the slaughterhouses are far enough removed from the animals that they don’t have to confront the moral questions of what they’re putting these animals through.

              I agree that it’s still a disgusting practice, but it’s not the same thing as deliberately harming animals for your own amusement. In the meat industry, some people can hand-wave those moral concerns away by saying to themselves “at least the animals died for something good: to feed countless families”. Whether you agree with that reasoning or not (which, for the record, I do not), that same person can’t use that excuse in the case of these monkeys. It’s just pointless suffering for the amusement of a handful of psychopaths.

              • NotAPenguin@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                but it’s not the same thing as deliberately harming animals for your own amusement.

                But it kinda is tho isn’t it?

                Paying someone to kill animals because you like the taste of their corpses is basically harming animals for your own amusement.

                Yes it’s not just taste, also “food” but food can also just be plants so that leaves just taste aka. pleasure aka. amusement.