Sharp and sustained economic criticism from Biden's ostensible allies established a narrative of failure that has proved alarmingly resistant to reality.
There is nothing arrogant about recognizing that your living conditions have regressed over the course of the past 5 years, nor is there anything wrong with basing your decisions around how you percieve things to be.
Its a headline and story that’s been being trotted out for 2, almost 3 years. We keep being told the economy is ‘booming’ and yet the lived experience disagrees. I have the receipts that my live experience isn’t lying (they are quite literally grocery receipts). Our money isn’t going as far and wages have effectively stagnated since 2019. My power bill is twice what it was; no change in consumption. My grocery bill is also basically twice what it was. Again, no heads added or change in consumption. In fact, we cut out things. A couple of years ago, taking a big trip was totally reasonable. I don’t even feel like I can take weekends off any more.
What you’ve got to start realizing is that their economy is not our economy. No one is giving credit because there is no credit to give. The stock market going up and to the right means jack shit when you can’t afford groceries.
What you’ve got to start realizing is that their economy is not our economy.
I think you’ve really identified to crux of the matter here. The stock market is not the economy. To rich DC insiders, it’s everything, but to the other 99% of us, who gives a shit? Wake me up when we can do insider trading too I guess.
The meteoric rise of a select few chip manufacturers is what’s driving this “strong economy”, btw. How on earth is that considered sustainable economic success?
There is nothing arrogant about recognizing that your living conditions have regressed over the course of the past 5 years, nor is there anything wrong with basing your decisions around how you percieve things to be.
There is absolutely something wrong when you decide that your anecdotes trump statistical data, though. That’s just flat-out defective and invalid.
Should I believe ones I can make using my costco receipts or the ones whoever on the whatever show on MSNBC is repeating? What statistics we calculate, how we choose to include or exclude data in their formulation, and what we interpret them to mean are all subjective. Is it any more or less subjective than my lived experience?
You are being obtuse about how people make real decisions about their lives. They don’t and shouldn’t’ base them on statistics because the world is varied and not monolithic in experience. Experience and memory are a form of data, if not a great one. Experience always trumps statistics. People aren’t’ going to be making their decision in November based on statistics. They’ll be making them based on their lived experience.
Never claimed that it trumps their stats, simply that the character of the economy they describe does not mesh with reality. Kind of tired of the incessant gaslighting, when no significant changes to materially improve our living conditions have materialized.
Ok Mr Obtuse - I’m saying they can cherry pick stats to support their narrative all they want, but at the end of the day material living conditions for the majority of Americans have declined in this time period. Over 62% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck today, and cannot afford an emergency $400 expense. That number is up from 40% pre-pandemic. If you live in a major metro, open your window and look outside to see how the size of tent cities are multiplying. These people simply aren’t counted by the new metrics. How is this the strongest economy we’ve ever seen?
at the end of the day material living conditions for the majority of Americans have declined in this time period. Over 62% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck today, and cannot afford an emergency $400 expense. That number is up from 40% pre-pandemic.
See, now those are statistics! That’s a very different – and much more sound – argument than you were making before.
Never claimed that it trumps their stats
doesnt mesh with reality
your personal reality is the only perspective/experience, which everyone experiences, ergo that reality is right and trumps their stats
ill give you a personal experience. in the last decade in the UK I have made significant gains in my personal income. While living in a crumbling country determined to get everyone into poverty. My reality is good and comfortable but that is not the vast majority of “reality” as a whole. Im an outlier. As are you, in comparison to the stats.
That’s not data that gives us information on standard of living or affordability though. They keep telling you about oranges and saying it means something about apples.
Here’s Gallup actually asking the people and not an economist quoting the most generalized of statistics to cover up real conditions on the ground. It is entirely possible for the economy to grow, for unemployment to drop, and inflation to be less, while the working class is evicted en masse.
63% of U.S. adults say recent price increases have caused financial hardship for their family. This includes 17% who say it is a severe hardship affecting their ability to maintain their standard of living and 46% who report it is a moderate hardship but does not jeopardize their standard of living. Another 37% of Americans say inflation is not a hardship at all.
The current 63% saying rising prices are a personal hardship reflects a continuation of peak concern on this measure since Gallup started monitoring it in November 2021. In that initial reading, 45% reported a severe or moderate hardship. The rate inched up in 2022 even as inflation ebbed, perhaps reflecting the cumulative effect of higher prices rather than the rate itself.
Those in lower-income households (76%) are more likely than those in middle-income households (64%) and higher-income households (54%) to say price increases are causing them hardship. However, income differences are even more pronounced when looking just at those saying the impact is severe. Lower-income Americans (30%) are three times as likely as high-income adults (10%) and almost twice as likely as middle-income adults (16%) to characterize high prices as a severe hardship.
Thank you, that’s helpful information! And not at all surprising, as those nearest the bottom are usually the last to feel relief from economic downturns.
I think a lot of what helped us rebuild the economy is that during covid a ton of people completed their education and were ready to move up. Those who weren’t able to do that are still suffering and left behind to an extent.
Yeah. But the problem here is the Biden campaign cannot fathom why their messaging is making people mad. And of course they’re going to be mad if they’re still hurting and he refuses to believe it.
What are they supposed to do? They improved the economy. People refuse to believe it.
I’ll give you a moment to rage.
Okay, now that’s done, consider it from their perspective. The data tells them they have succeeded. People refuse to believe it. What are they supposed to do? Succeed again? People will just reject it again.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just did a heel turn and said, welp, guess who isn’t a bunch of ungrateful fucks? Wealthy people. Tax cuts ahoy! Found a new voter base!
I refuse to believe they are that dense. The first thing you learn in economics class is that the top level statistics like GDP, Unemployment, Median Wage, and Inflation are too broad to tell the whole story. That’s why we have the surveys. When the top level numbers are good and people are still complaining it’s not just PR or ungratefulness. There’s really something wrong. And at the end of the day if things are normal, then you’re losing the messaging battle. These guys are completely detached from reality in one way or another. But considering the survey results I’m pretty sure it’s actually hard to put a monthly budget together for 63% of Americans right now.
No, it’s just status quo to say the mainstream media is lying. The fuck have you been? They’ve done nothing but suck rich nobs off for the past three decades.
How do you think Trump got all that free press? It wasn’t ONLY because he’s a charismatic asshole.
They’re citing statistics.
YOU have the anecdotal evidence.
I’m sorry shit isn’t going so well for you and yes, it sucks to be kept down without much hope. I have been there - under Bush.
But it’s really fucking arrogant to say that because YOUR experience sucks the data is false and the press is lying.
There is nothing arrogant about recognizing that your living conditions have regressed over the course of the past 5 years, nor is there anything wrong with basing your decisions around how you percieve things to be.
Its a headline and story that’s been being trotted out for 2, almost 3 years. We keep being told the economy is ‘booming’ and yet the lived experience disagrees. I have the receipts that my live experience isn’t lying (they are quite literally grocery receipts). Our money isn’t going as far and wages have effectively stagnated since 2019. My power bill is twice what it was; no change in consumption. My grocery bill is also basically twice what it was. Again, no heads added or change in consumption. In fact, we cut out things. A couple of years ago, taking a big trip was totally reasonable. I don’t even feel like I can take weekends off any more.
What you’ve got to start realizing is that their economy is not our economy. No one is giving credit because there is no credit to give. The stock market going up and to the right means jack shit when you can’t afford groceries.
I think you’ve really identified to crux of the matter here. The stock market is not the economy. To rich DC insiders, it’s everything, but to the other 99% of us, who gives a shit? Wake me up when we can do insider trading too I guess.
The meteoric rise of a select few chip manufacturers is what’s driving this “strong economy”, btw. How on earth is that considered sustainable economic success?
I think it’s the wage growth, lower inflation, and longest sustained low unemployment of my lifetime that drive that economic success.
I do however agree that too much attention is paid to the stock market, and that wage growth isn’t high enough.
Well considering wages have remained stagnant since the 1970’s, compared to skyrocketing productivity, I’m inclined to agree!
There is absolutely something wrong when you decide that your anecdotes trump statistical data, though. That’s just flat-out defective and invalid.
But which statistics?
The 1980 ones?
The 1990 ones?
The 2010 ones?
The ones I have in my budgeting software?
Should I believe ones I can make using my costco receipts or the ones whoever on the whatever show on MSNBC is repeating? What statistics we calculate, how we choose to include or exclude data in their formulation, and what we interpret them to mean are all subjective. Is it any more or less subjective than my lived experience?
You are being obtuse about how people make real decisions about their lives. They don’t and shouldn’t’ base them on statistics because the world is varied and not monolithic in experience. Experience and memory are a form of data, if not a great one. Experience always trumps statistics. People aren’t’ going to be making their decision in November based on statistics. They’ll be making them based on their lived experience.
Never claimed that it trumps their stats, simply that the character of the economy they describe does not mesh with reality. Kind of tired of the incessant gaslighting, when no significant changes to materially improve our living conditions have materialized.
Ok Mr Obtuse - I’m saying they can cherry pick stats to support their narrative all they want, but at the end of the day material living conditions for the majority of Americans have declined in this time period. Over 62% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck today, and cannot afford an emergency $400 expense. That number is up from 40% pre-pandemic. If you live in a major metro, open your window and look outside to see how the size of tent cities are multiplying. These people simply aren’t counted by the new metrics. How is this the strongest economy we’ve ever seen?
See, now those are statistics! That’s a very different – and much more sound – argument than you were making before.
your personal reality is the only perspective/experience, which everyone experiences, ergo that reality is right and trumps their stats
ill give you a personal experience. in the last decade in the UK I have made significant gains in my personal income. While living in a crumbling country determined to get everyone into poverty. My reality is good and comfortable but that is not the vast majority of “reality” as a whole. Im an outlier. As are you, in comparison to the stats.
That’s not data that gives us information on standard of living or affordability though. They keep telling you about oranges and saying it means something about apples.
Here’s Gallup actually asking the people and not an economist quoting the most generalized of statistics to cover up real conditions on the ground. It is entirely possible for the economy to grow, for unemployment to drop, and inflation to be less, while the working class is evicted en masse.
Maybe… just maybe… the numbers about the economy arent true.
But surely the govt and fed wouldnt lie to us?
Nah they’re true. They just aren’t numbers that describe the working class. They describe things as a whole with no regard for the parts.
Thank you, that’s helpful information! And not at all surprising, as those nearest the bottom are usually the last to feel relief from economic downturns.
I think a lot of what helped us rebuild the economy is that during covid a ton of people completed their education and were ready to move up. Those who weren’t able to do that are still suffering and left behind to an extent.
Yeah. But the problem here is the Biden campaign cannot fathom why their messaging is making people mad. And of course they’re going to be mad if they’re still hurting and he refuses to believe it.
What are they supposed to do? They improved the economy. People refuse to believe it.
I’ll give you a moment to rage.
Okay, now that’s done, consider it from their perspective. The data tells them they have succeeded. People refuse to believe it. What are they supposed to do? Succeed again? People will just reject it again.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just did a heel turn and said, welp, guess who isn’t a bunch of ungrateful fucks? Wealthy people. Tax cuts ahoy! Found a new voter base!
I refuse to believe they are that dense. The first thing you learn in economics class is that the top level statistics like GDP, Unemployment, Median Wage, and Inflation are too broad to tell the whole story. That’s why we have the surveys. When the top level numbers are good and people are still complaining it’s not just PR or ungratefulness. There’s really something wrong. And at the end of the day if things are normal, then you’re losing the messaging battle. These guys are completely detached from reality in one way or another. But considering the survey results I’m pretty sure it’s actually hard to put a monthly budget together for 63% of Americans right now.
This is it. Facts don’t matter, only perception. We’re in a post-truth era.
No, it’s just status quo to say the mainstream media is lying. The fuck have you been? They’ve done nothing but suck rich nobs off for the past three decades.
How do you think Trump got all that free press? It wasn’t ONLY because he’s a charismatic asshole.