i would argue that you probably lean more on the side of sharing user rights and freedoms generically. Rather than the more specific “software and ideas”
You can certainly have different opinions relating to guns. But they do have a fundamental overlap of underlying concepts. Rights are rights at the end of the day. Either you have them. And they’re justified, or you don’t, and none of them are.
Rights are what a community agrees on that they should have. I’m happy my community has agreed that owning guns is a priviledge, not a right. There is no sufficient reason owning guns should be a right, so I can be completely in favour of rights and freedoms without including any right to own guns.
i mean, technically if we’re arguing that it’s a privilege more than a right. That wouldn’t really change the point being made here, considering that legally, the government does have the ability to prevent you from owning a gun. Minor semantic shenanigan though so meh.
Innocent lives lost due to “law abiding citizens” mishandling guns: a metric shit ton
Corrupt governments toppled by gun lovers: 0
The thought of how many people might be stocking ammo and thinking to use out if their favorite politician loses makes me happy for having an ocean between me and them.
Do you like the two party system? Do you like the electoral college? Do you like the lack of accountability your politicians face? I’m assuming you must assuming you’re a gun owner who hasn’t tried to liberate the US
Who do you even need to fight bro? If I was say getting mugged I would give them all my valuables save a 10 % tip that I could give them when I was allowed to run the hell away from there. Do not be a stupid macho idiot. Be a smart coward without neither a wallet, gun nor a fatal wound.
Jokes aside, the main uptick is the smaller chance of someone less mentally stable than you with less to lose also having a gun.
So what about when you are getting raped? What about when someone doesn’t want to let you go? Do you know what its like to almost be murdered?
If you want to say “Why do you even need to fight bro” you’re basically just saying good luck to all the people who can’t defend themselves and just letting them die. And do you not understand how regimes come to light? Just take a look at Russia, Putin just got to serve for another 6 years. Do you wonder how somebody stays in power for 24 years and more? Because nobody can fight back.
How are you supposed to go an get your gun from the locked cabinet where I assume you keep it to prevent a psycho from stealing it and using it against you? Unless you keep it attached to you at all times risking a misfire or your attacker grabbing it and using it against you. What if you accidentally kill someone who was infact innocent when you think you’re doing the right thing but you misjudged a situation? How do I know that you can be trusted with a firearm? What distinguishes you from a school shooter just by looking at you? If the US is so free why don’t you fight back against the corrupt two-party system?
Russia has pretty high gun ownership… comparable to Europe/Australia and not far from Canada. The US has like 4x the guns per capita as the next highest countries, and it’s far from the most free.
If a country like the US had a lower violent dead per capita than other first world countries like France or Germany, I would agree with you. But given that the numbers are 3 to 6 times those of EU countries, it doesn’t seem to be working.
Still, if you want to quantify how many lives were saved in any given year I can give you how many innocent ones were lost. Hard to measure, you say? Then it’s a weak arguments based on feelings not facts.
If a country like the US had a lower violent dead per capita than other first world countries like France or Germany, I would agree with you.
It doesn’t have as high of a gun ownership rate as the US (no one does), but Czechia has some of the laxest gun laws in Europe, including allowing the concealed carry of a handgun like the US (at least 1 million Czechs have permits to own a firearm, a large portion of which conceal carry them for self defense) and they have a lower homicide rate than Germany or France (Source: World Bank)
Even as a supporter of gun rights, I don’t think that definitively proves that guns, on a societal level, prevent deaths. I don’t believe that in general. I do believe, however, that on a personal level, a well trained individual who sees the need to defend themself or people they love can prevent harm by owning a firearm. I do also believe that in a society (America) with a broken policing system, and an increasingly authoritarian Republican party that wants to crack down on my rights and the rights of people I love, I’d like the option to protect myself and my friends/family.
I struggle to see Japan as a bastion of freedom lol. Fun place to visit for sure, but between the archaic drug laws and suicide forests I’m not sure they are a society others should be modeling themselves after.
Compared to Japan, I mean yeah. Living in Japan & South Korea is absolutely hell, they’re probably some of the most conservative governments/societies in the world, certainly the most conservative in the first world.
I want to share software and ideas, not bullets and death. Hard pass.
i would argue that you probably lean more on the side of sharing user rights and freedoms generically. Rather than the more specific “software and ideas”
You can certainly have different opinions relating to guns. But they do have a fundamental overlap of underlying concepts. Rights are rights at the end of the day. Either you have them. And they’re justified, or you don’t, and none of them are.
Rights are what a community agrees on that they should have. I’m happy my community has agreed that owning guns is a priviledge, not a right. There is no sufficient reason owning guns should be a right, so I can be completely in favour of rights and freedoms without including any right to own guns.
i mean, technically if we’re arguing that it’s a privilege more than a right. That wouldn’t really change the point being made here, considering that legally, the government does have the ability to prevent you from owning a gun. Minor semantic shenanigan though so meh.
Please just stop
i think this is probably the best reply i’ve gotten so far.
Well, that’s hard to do when your government are the only ones with guns and power.
Can confirm, no FOSS at all in Europe
Innocent lives lost due to “law abiding citizens” mishandling guns: a metric shit ton
Corrupt governments toppled by gun lovers: 0
The thought of how many people might be stocking ammo and thinking to use out if their favorite politician loses makes me happy for having an ocean between me and them.
i mean, in a sense. That is why the US exists today. The british are well known gun fanatics.
deleted by creator
Ahh, the typical Reddit old tradition of vague statement of knowledge with no meat to not be rebutted. Had hoped that didn’t reach Lemmy.
Lightning round. Russia? Ha! China? Ha! North Korea? Japan? Ha! Netherlands? Hahahaha
USA…? Hahahahahahhahahhaha
The US might prove true if you include gun nuts toppling their own government by voting for fascist scum.
Do you like the two party system? Do you like the electoral college? Do you like the lack of accountability your politicians face? I’m assuming you must assuming you’re a gun owner who hasn’t tried to liberate the US
What about the innocent lives lost because they didn’t have a gun? You think everyone can fight with their bare hands or a knife?
Who do you even need to fight bro? If I was say getting mugged I would give them all my valuables save a 10 % tip that I could give them when I was allowed to run the hell away from there. Do not be a stupid macho idiot. Be a smart coward without neither a wallet, gun nor a fatal wound.
Jokes aside, the main uptick is the smaller chance of someone less mentally stable than you with less to lose also having a gun.
So what about when you are getting raped? What about when someone doesn’t want to let you go? Do you know what its like to almost be murdered?
If you want to say “Why do you even need to fight bro” you’re basically just saying good luck to all the people who can’t defend themselves and just letting them die. And do you not understand how regimes come to light? Just take a look at Russia, Putin just got to serve for another 6 years. Do you wonder how somebody stays in power for 24 years and more? Because nobody can fight back.
How are you supposed to go an get your gun from the locked cabinet where I assume you keep it to prevent a psycho from stealing it and using it against you? Unless you keep it attached to you at all times risking a misfire or your attacker grabbing it and using it against you. What if you accidentally kill someone who was infact innocent when you think you’re doing the right thing but you misjudged a situation? How do I know that you can be trusted with a firearm? What distinguishes you from a school shooter just by looking at you? If the US is so free why don’t you fight back against the corrupt two-party system?
Russia has pretty high gun ownership… comparable to Europe/Australia and not far from Canada. The US has like 4x the guns per capita as the next highest countries, and it’s far from the most free.
If a country like the US had a lower violent dead per capita than other first world countries like France or Germany, I would agree with you. But given that the numbers are 3 to 6 times those of EU countries, it doesn’t seem to be working.
Still, if you want to quantify how many lives were saved in any given year I can give you how many innocent ones were lost. Hard to measure, you say? Then it’s a weak arguments based on feelings not facts.
It doesn’t have as high of a gun ownership rate as the US (no one does), but Czechia has some of the laxest gun laws in Europe, including allowing the concealed carry of a handgun like the US (at least 1 million Czechs have permits to own a firearm, a large portion of which conceal carry them for self defense) and they have a lower homicide rate than Germany or France (Source: World Bank)
Even as a supporter of gun rights, I don’t think that definitively proves that guns, on a societal level, prevent deaths. I don’t believe that in general. I do believe, however, that on a personal level, a well trained individual who sees the need to defend themself or people they love can prevent harm by owning a firearm. I do also believe that in a society (America) with a broken policing system, and an increasingly authoritarian Republican party that wants to crack down on my rights and the rights of people I love, I’d like the option to protect myself and my friends/family.
Owning a gun makes you more likely to die by gun accident or by that gun being used against you. You logic is completely wrong.
Im pretty sure Japan is sharing software and ideas all the time
I struggle to see Japan as a bastion of freedom lol. Fun place to visit for sure, but between the archaic drug laws and suicide forests I’m not sure they are a society others should be modeling themselves after.
Not sure if the countries with more gun rights are either more free or have a society with modeling after.
Compared to Japan, I mean yeah. Living in Japan & South Korea is absolutely hell, they’re probably some of the most conservative governments/societies in the world, certainly the most conservative in the first world.
this is moving goalposts, they specified sharing software and ideas. But check out this list of suicide rates if you think our gun culture is beneficial at all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
@lemmylem @Railcar8095 oh i love the fantasy ‘we’re going to overthrow the government with our rifles’ trope, please tell us more