It sounds like that you are just not interested in building a new community and rather go back to the ivory tower that is reddit.
If that is so just say it.
What are you gonna do when Reddit is gonna implement the next thing that would be unbeneficial to the community?
If you know that the possible new mods are asses, why not call reddits bluff?
Let them see what good moderation is about and what happens when you don’t care about the good moderators for years.
You are probably afraid that a new mod team would do just a good a job as you and you will be forgotten after a day. Then of course what would be all this for if change wouldn’t happen? Other questions you are asking yourself can entice; Is my moderation position really that hard to take over? Are the changes really affecting me?
You are probably afraid losing something that you put your own time and effort in and the idea that someone would ruin it or just take your place is a situation you are not ready for. I would understand all that but then why black out at all? Rigorous changes after 48 hours only happen in Disney movies, you should know that.
Sorry to say but most of the community does not give a damn about moderators and you know it. They care about the content that is provided to them that is what they are hooked on.
This only shows that Reddit has full control over you and your actions and they can do whatever they want to whomever they want because you will bulge the first second they threaten to take your moderations position away.
For the life of me I cannot understand why people would gladly be providing money in Reddits pockets, while the community and moderators don’t see a penny, don’t see any user improvements, get constantly lied to, while getting bend over on every turn.
I am gonna say this again; I thought moderators actually got paid by reddit. I was baffled when I heard a few days ago they weren’t. I thought and still think it would be absolutely ridiculous to invest your time and efforts for a profit making company for absolutely nothing in return.
In the meantime Steve huffman is spitting in your and the communities face every step of the way, not caring about you or the community at all.
I have a whole lot of respect to the people who gave up their mod positions just to make a stand for themselves.
I really don’t mind if subs stay open, if you like to moderate be my guest. If you don’t agree with the blackout, sure.
But the posturing about the greater good for the community, just don’t.
It sounds like that you are just not interested in building a new community and rather go back to the ivory tower that is reddit.
If we weren’t interested, we wouldn’t have founded the community. We’re now maintaining two. The Disneyland subreddit links to Kbin in its sidebar. While I’d agree that Reddit is somewhat of an ivory tower, bear in mind that it’s a community we’ve cultivated for years and we have a sense of responsibility for them.
What are you gonna do when Reddit is gonna implement the next thing that would be unbeneficial to the community?
Link here, like we already are. We’ve never participated in “Reddit drama”. The fact that we took a stand as-is was a big step for us. We even committed to “indefinite”, not just 48 hours. It wasn’t effective, and we caved after 110 hours or so. Lessons learned.
But when (not if) Reddit shoots itself in the foot, we can have a community here ready for them. Right now it’s small. To a certain extent, that’s positive… the mod tools on Kbin are lacking. But it’s not like we’re abandoning the community here.
Spez is taking inspiration from Elon. He’s going to do more dumb things. He’s already talked about the dumb things he wants to do. There’ll be other waves of migration, and we want to make sure that anyone who still wants the space they had (but doesn’t want to use Reddit) can have a home.
If you know that the possible new mods are asses, why not call reddits bluff?
Do you think Reddit cares about asshole mod teams? Honestly. Remember, the “new mods” already run a major Disney subreddit. If Reddit cared about them being assholes who regularly wind up on SubredditDrama they would have taken action already.
Also bear in mind that I am one person on a team. There are others who work alongside me that have voices which should be heard and respected. To that extent, a lot of them didn’t want to even risk it. I don’t have the authority (by design) to unilaterally override them.
Sorry to say but most of the community does not give a damn about moderators.
…
I thought and still think it would be absolutely ridiculous to invest your time and efforts for a profit making company for absolutely nothing in return.
Absolutely correct. We’re the unpaid jannies, the suckers who need to touch grass. That’s not sarcasm, btw - I really do think that. It’s absolutely ridiculous that we do it at all, especially given the amount of abuse we get from… well, basically everyone.
Spez doesn’t care about our users. We know that. Frankly, there are a lot of places on the internet that are run or controlled by those who don’t care about others.
So spaces that do care are important. You can call it posturing, but it’s the truth. If we didn’t care, we would’ve quit a decade ago.
We care about making our community a welcoming space, a little home on the internet. We care about stopping trolls that see the word “Disney” and want to cause as much damage as possible.
It is absolutely ridiculous to care. Because you’re right - the site doesn’t care. We are giving them value and expecting nothing. They depend on us to care, and they treat us any way they want because they know we’re too goddamn soft to let harm come to the communities we try and protect.
But there are people who need these little rest stops. They need a place to post a picture of their Mickey Mouse balloon, or their engagement photo in front of the castle, or their debate about what on earth the writing on some poster says. It makes them happy and there’s a whole blossoming community there, of happy people in a safe space.
What on earth do I even get out of my “posturing” otherwise? A stupid green badge that says “please yell at me?” I don’t even get that badge outside of my sub. I’m not a powermod; /r/Disneyland is the only major sub I mod. The only others I run are teeny tiny, maybe 600 users. We’re not a Reddit partner community that gets wined and dined.
We’re just some stupid, terminally-online folks who need to touch grass. Doing unpaid labor for an abusive place that doesn’t care, promoting a different abusive monopoly of a company that doesn’t care. All to make some little virtual people on the other side of a box (who also hate us) happy.
You sound like a great and super reasonable person. Reddit was lucky to have your help and it’s a shame they don’t appreciate you and mods like you more.
My post says what I think. Of course they don’t they haven’t cared for the better part of 8 years. It’s why I ran PDS and stopped with using Reddit as of this week.
“But there are people who need these little rest stops. They need a place to post a picture of their Mickey Mouse balloon, or their engagement photo in front of the castle, or their debate about what on earth the writing on some poster says. It makes them happy and there’s a whole blossoming community there, of happy people in a safe space.”
You know that Reddit will use this as leverage whenever they can right?
“We’re just some stupid, terminally-online folks who need to touch grass. Doing unpaid labor for an abusive place that doesn’t care. All to make some little virtual people on the other side of a box (who also hate us) happy.”
Why would you even talk about yourself like that?
If it wasn’t clear I am hardcore in the moderator camp.
I would not be a moderator even if you would glue me to a chair and threaten me to mod or I would be forced to watch every season of seinfeld in that same chair. I absolutely despise seinfeld.
You are literally the gateway between the community and Reddits pockets. Why do you think that Facebook pays a buttload of cash for their moderators.
I come of as harsh maybe, but for some reason I feel like I care more for the moderators then the moderators do for themselves.
You should be proud of the work you do and the shit you take on the daily.
Sorry if I come on strong, but believe me it isn’t to dunk on you or the moderators in any way, shape or form.
I am probably way to invested in this part of the saga so I will stop posting about this part at all.
You’re doing great. I’m not on your subreddit, but you don’t deserve people piling on here. Thanks for everything you do, and I hope this transition doesn’t cause you too many gray hairs :)
If the community is as important to the users as you believe them to be then those who truly do value the resources of the community will move.
I value the resources of r/FREEMEDIAHECKYEAH and /r/piracy over the years so much that I came to lemmy. I didn’t see /r/piracy’s initial plans to do an indefinite shutdown as something that would hurt me, but something I fully supported and was more than happy to join them on lemmy to find a new home.
Reddit was why I found communities like those two, but reddit was not what I needed for them to always have to be on. Those who don’t feel the same will just run off to whatever other piracy resource is there regardless of whether mods are removed or different.
So I guess what I’m trying to say as one of the regular people is you don’t need to worry so much about hurting us. And to us this wasn’t just a fight over communities but stuff like the freedom to use third party apps and great third party extensions like RES. I didn’t want to have to use the terrible reddit website on my phone to interact with my communities, or have to use their spyware official app. I was happy mods were willing to fight for users like us who didn’t have any power at all.
You’re doing great. I’m not on your subreddit, but you don’t deserve people piling on here. Thanks for everything you do, and I hope this transition doesn’t cause you too many gray hairs :)
We care about making our community a welcoming space, a little home on the internet. We care about stopping trolls that see the word “Disney” and want to cause as much damage as possible.
Funny enough with how beehaw is defederating from a bunch of instances that pose a threat to disturbing the safe positive vibes here seems like beehaw would be a good place to start that community here. And help reduce modding oversight with how instances with users who step over the line repeatedly can get the entire instance defederated like what happened to lemmy.world.
I’m not sure how open or closed kbin is to walling off groups that are potentially hostile.
Beehaw doesn’t allow you to create communities. They were our initial choice until we learned that.
Kbin is against hate speech, which is all I ask for. And we had issues with those users on Reddit regardless; Reddit doesn’t instantly ban someone the moment they spout the n-word across 12 subreddits.
Usually AutoMod catches/removes it, then we ban when reviewing modqueue. (Which the official app doesn’t have last time I checked.) AutoMod doesn’t exist here, which makes that harder… but we’re small enough that it doesn’t matter.
EnglishMobster explained, that for them, it is still about supporting the community they’ve built there, and it is still tenable to continue with that. You’re response is to exaggerate the current Reddit threat, and get shirty at EnglishMobster. BlackCoffee, you show no consideration for an opinion outide your viewpoint, only recalcitrance.
you love something(or thought you love something if you read the follow points)
you dedicate time to make it better, like building your own themepark or rollercoaster tycoon
you are in the god view and have control over almost every aspect of the community
you feel the need and urge to keep those people the visit your themepark happy and engaged
the time and effort you put in(sunken cost) actually have value to the mods, but not the visitors
if something bad is threaten to happen to the thing you cared about, you have similar if not stronger emotional response when the author killed your favorite character in the show you loved a lot.
It might be mentally closer to threaten to take away your loved dog/cat cause in reality you bonded with that identity but you don’t actually own the sub.
I do not understand these posts at all.
It sounds like that you are just not interested in building a new community and rather go back to the ivory tower that is reddit.
If that is so just say it.
What are you gonna do when Reddit is gonna implement the next thing that would be unbeneficial to the community?
If you know that the possible new mods are asses, why not call reddits bluff?
Let them see what good moderation is about and what happens when you don’t care about the good moderators for years.
You are probably afraid that a new mod team would do just a good a job as you and you will be forgotten after a day. Then of course what would be all this for if change wouldn’t happen? Other questions you are asking yourself can entice; Is my moderation position really that hard to take over? Are the changes really affecting me?
You are probably afraid losing something that you put your own time and effort in and the idea that someone would ruin it or just take your place is a situation you are not ready for. I would understand all that but then why black out at all? Rigorous changes after 48 hours only happen in Disney movies, you should know that.
Sorry to say but most of the community does not give a damn about moderators and you know it. They care about the content that is provided to them that is what they are hooked on.
This only shows that Reddit has full control over you and your actions and they can do whatever they want to whomever they want because you will bulge the first second they threaten to take your moderations position away.
For the life of me I cannot understand why people would gladly be providing money in Reddits pockets, while the community and moderators don’t see a penny, don’t see any user improvements, get constantly lied to, while getting bend over on every turn.
I am gonna say this again; I thought moderators actually got paid by reddit. I was baffled when I heard a few days ago they weren’t. I thought and still think it would be absolutely ridiculous to invest your time and efforts for a profit making company for absolutely nothing in return.
In the meantime Steve huffman is spitting in your and the communities face every step of the way, not caring about you or the community at all.
I have a whole lot of respect to the people who gave up their mod positions just to make a stand for themselves.
I really don’t mind if subs stay open, if you like to moderate be my guest. If you don’t agree with the blackout, sure.
But the posturing about the greater good for the community, just don’t.
Alright, one point at a time:
If we weren’t interested, we wouldn’t have founded the community. We’re now maintaining two. The Disneyland subreddit links to Kbin in its sidebar. While I’d agree that Reddit is somewhat of an ivory tower, bear in mind that it’s a community we’ve cultivated for years and we have a sense of responsibility for them.
Link here, like we already are. We’ve never participated in “Reddit drama”. The fact that we took a stand as-is was a big step for us. We even committed to “indefinite”, not just 48 hours. It wasn’t effective, and we caved after 110 hours or so. Lessons learned.
But when (not if) Reddit shoots itself in the foot, we can have a community here ready for them. Right now it’s small. To a certain extent, that’s positive… the mod tools on Kbin are lacking. But it’s not like we’re abandoning the community here.
Spez is taking inspiration from Elon. He’s going to do more dumb things. He’s already talked about the dumb things he wants to do. There’ll be other waves of migration, and we want to make sure that anyone who still wants the space they had (but doesn’t want to use Reddit) can have a home.
Do you think Reddit cares about asshole mod teams? Honestly. Remember, the “new mods” already run a major Disney subreddit. If Reddit cared about them being assholes who regularly wind up on SubredditDrama they would have taken action already.
Also bear in mind that I am one person on a team. There are others who work alongside me that have voices which should be heard and respected. To that extent, a lot of them didn’t want to even risk it. I don’t have the authority (by design) to unilaterally override them.
Absolutely correct. We’re the unpaid jannies, the suckers who need to touch grass. That’s not sarcasm, btw - I really do think that. It’s absolutely ridiculous that we do it at all, especially given the amount of abuse we get from… well, basically everyone.
Spez doesn’t care about our users. We know that. Frankly, there are a lot of places on the internet that are run or controlled by those who don’t care about others.
So spaces that do care are important. You can call it posturing, but it’s the truth. If we didn’t care, we would’ve quit a decade ago.
We care about making our community a welcoming space, a little home on the internet. We care about stopping trolls that see the word “Disney” and want to cause as much damage as possible.
It is absolutely ridiculous to care. Because you’re right - the site doesn’t care. We are giving them value and expecting nothing. They depend on us to care, and they treat us any way they want because they know we’re too goddamn soft to let harm come to the communities we try and protect.
But there are people who need these little rest stops. They need a place to post a picture of their Mickey Mouse balloon, or their engagement photo in front of the castle, or their debate about what on earth the writing on some poster says. It makes them happy and there’s a whole blossoming community there, of happy people in a safe space.
What on earth do I even get out of my “posturing” otherwise? A stupid green badge that says “please yell at me?” I don’t even get that badge outside of my sub. I’m not a powermod; /r/Disneyland is the only major sub I mod. The only others I run are teeny tiny, maybe 600 users. We’re not a Reddit partner community that gets wined and dined.
We’re just some stupid, terminally-online folks who need to touch grass. Doing unpaid labor for an abusive place that doesn’t care, promoting a different abusive monopoly of a company that doesn’t care. All to make some little virtual people on the other side of a box (who also hate us) happy.
Have you considered shifting to a model of only permitting disneyfied John Oliver image posts?
You sound like a great and super reasonable person. Reddit was lucky to have your help and it’s a shame they don’t appreciate you and mods like you more.
“Do you think Reddit cares? Honestly.”
My post says what I think. Of course they don’t they haven’t cared for the better part of 8 years. It’s why I ran PDS and stopped with using Reddit as of this week.
“But there are people who need these little rest stops. They need a place to post a picture of their Mickey Mouse balloon, or their engagement photo in front of the castle, or their debate about what on earth the writing on some poster says. It makes them happy and there’s a whole blossoming community there, of happy people in a safe space.”
You know that Reddit will use this as leverage whenever they can right?
“We’re just some stupid, terminally-online folks who need to touch grass. Doing unpaid labor for an abusive place that doesn’t care. All to make some little virtual people on the other side of a box (who also hate us) happy.”
Why would you even talk about yourself like that?
If it wasn’t clear I am hardcore in the moderator camp.
I would not be a moderator even if you would glue me to a chair and threaten me to mod or I would be forced to watch every season of seinfeld in that same chair. I absolutely despise seinfeld.
You are literally the gateway between the community and Reddits pockets. Why do you think that Facebook pays a buttload of cash for their moderators.
I come of as harsh maybe, but for some reason I feel like I care more for the moderators then the moderators do for themselves.
You should be proud of the work you do and the shit you take on the daily.
Sorry if I come on strong, but believe me it isn’t to dunk on you or the moderators in any way, shape or form.
I am probably way to invested in this part of the saga so I will stop posting about this part at all.
You’re doing great. I’m not on your subreddit, but you don’t deserve people piling on here. Thanks for everything you do, and I hope this transition doesn’t cause you too many gray hairs :)
If the community is as important to the users as you believe them to be then those who truly do value the resources of the community will move.
I value the resources of r/FREEMEDIAHECKYEAH and /r/piracy over the years so much that I came to lemmy. I didn’t see /r/piracy’s initial plans to do an indefinite shutdown as something that would hurt me, but something I fully supported and was more than happy to join them on lemmy to find a new home.
Reddit was why I found communities like those two, but reddit was not what I needed for them to always have to be on. Those who don’t feel the same will just run off to whatever other piracy resource is there regardless of whether mods are removed or different.
So I guess what I’m trying to say as one of the regular people is you don’t need to worry so much about hurting us. And to us this wasn’t just a fight over communities but stuff like the freedom to use third party apps and great third party extensions like RES. I didn’t want to have to use the terrible reddit website on my phone to interact with my communities, or have to use their spyware official app. I was happy mods were willing to fight for users like us who didn’t have any power at all.
You’re doing great. I’m not on your subreddit, but you don’t deserve people piling on here. Thanks for everything you do, and I hope this transition doesn’t cause you too many gray hairs :)
Funny enough with how beehaw is defederating from a bunch of instances that pose a threat to disturbing the safe positive vibes here seems like beehaw would be a good place to start that community here. And help reduce modding oversight with how instances with users who step over the line repeatedly can get the entire instance defederated like what happened to lemmy.world.
I’m not sure how open or closed kbin is to walling off groups that are potentially hostile.
Beehaw doesn’t allow you to create communities. They were our initial choice until we learned that.
Kbin is against hate speech, which is all I ask for. And we had issues with those users on Reddit regardless; Reddit doesn’t instantly ban someone the moment they spout the n-word across 12 subreddits.
Usually AutoMod catches/removes it, then we ban when reviewing modqueue. (Which the official app doesn’t have last time I checked.) AutoMod doesn’t exist here, which makes that harder… but we’re small enough that it doesn’t matter.
You can request communities.
EnglishMobster explained, that for them, it is still about supporting the community they’ve built there, and it is still tenable to continue with that. You’re response is to exaggerate the current Reddit threat, and get shirty at EnglishMobster. BlackCoffee, you show no consideration for an opinion outide your viewpoint, only recalcitrance.
I show enough consideration because of my post where I go deeper into the whole situation. I also used to be a part of the communities in Reddit.
You are missing my point.
If you really want change you should know what that would entice and what that would bring.
If you just wanted to posture and get brownie points then the 48 hour blackout was perfect for doing something without actually doing something.
But humeur me; How is this beneficial for the community in the long term?
What has Reddit shown that it cared about its communities and moderators over the years?
It does prove Steves point though; It all will blow over and people will bend the knee.
The motives of the community and Reddit do not align in the slightest.
It’s a self fulfilling conditioning that:
It might be mentally closer to threaten to take away your loved dog/cat cause in reality you bonded with that identity but you don’t actually own the sub.