The European Commission says China hasn’t been playing fair in that its government has been paying subsidies through “direct transfer of funds,” among other actions, reports Reuters – which the EC says tips the balance in China’s favor and leaves European automakers out to dry.
Back in October 2023, Europe launched its formal investigation into the Chinese EV industry, as European companies are struggling to compete with the cheap, high-tech Chinese imports, made by low-cost labor, entering the European Union.
There are a lot of good reports and investigations about forced labour in China across the web (as well as here on Lemmy). Those who also like watching documentaries may like
China: The Repressive Economic Giant
As China’s influence continues to expand around the world, at home the regime is becoming more repressive. A UN report has denounced crimes against humanity against the Uyghurs and the international community has criticised its bullying stance towards Taiwan. Reports and analysis of the Middle Kingdom.
Addition for a warning: some of the documentaries contain content that may distress users.
Sorry, haven’t almost all our European industries relied heavily on government subsidies, privatization of previously public entities, protectionism and so on? China is a socialist country, of course the government is subsidizing production. The reality is that China is outcompeting capitalist Europe (now sacrificed by the US) on capitalist terms. This move seems like an abandonment of free market laissez faire thinking in favour of mercantilism/outright iron curtain, while blaming it on the other guy.
China is a socialist country,
Lol
average lemmy.ml mf
Well, yeah, it’s complicated and all that, but still. For instance, did you know Huawei is a cooperative? I just learned.
Well, yeah, it’s complicated and all that, but still. For instance, did you know Huawei is a cooperative? I just learned.
Everything depends on the central government in China, whether it is a cooperative, a listed company, or a single person critical of the CCP. In tbe end, nothing happens without a highly centralized government.
I think it’s hard to tell and would advise against bombastic blanket statements like this, especially on China. We’re talking about one billion people and the world’s largest economy, after all. Our ability to clearly analyze China is hindered by its own opaqueness, but one should not forget the thick layer of propaganda we in the West are served whenever we’re talking about one of the so-called strategic adversaries.
the world’s largest economy
Incorrect. It is the second or third largest, behind the USA and the EU, depending on whether you count the EU as one economic entity.
I posted a link above, there’s enough information available and certainly more than one can post here. In a nutshell: nothing good ever comes from an authoritarian regime.
There you go again making blanket statements, giving you a look of either being a little daft and unnuanced or some kind of propagandist. “Nothing good”, unless you count biggest lift of people from poverty in history. Imagine two people being born in the sixties in India and China respectively. Both are dirt poor back then. Today one will still be poor, still in a third world country, while the other drives EVs, get their power from worlds largest green energy infrastructure, has working public services, best train system, etc.
Imagine two people being born in the sixties in India and China respectively.
I will happily imagine. Will you?
China: 55 million dead.
India: not.
Please note that the 55 million estimate is from a CCP party school official, not from a western historian - thus we can safely conclude that the number may well be higher.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
And I say this as someone as far left as left goes. We must not be blind to the crimes that have been committed, and are being committed, by terrible dictatorships that hide behind the ideas of Marx.
China is a state capitalist dictatorship engaged in genocide as we speak. Whether or not they have the audacity to call themselves socialist, or even communist, does not change their crimes.
Sorry, haven’t almost all our European industries relied heavily on government subsidies
Yes, and that stuff is factored in on every trade agreement the EU signs. The Chinese subsidies were not so now they are making the adjustments.
Trade agreements inside the European single market? What are you on about, buddy? Seems like lazy apologetics. Of course there are state aid rules in the EU, but the fact of the matter is that everyone from Hugo Boss to Seat and Nokia has been on the receiving end of favorable conditions from their home countries (Nazi uniform contracts in Boss’ case). Hell, even the American giants like Microsoft and Apple are propped up on government contracts.
Trade agreements with places like the United States, China, etc.
Ok, I misunderstood you.
A lot of EU products with national subsidies are usually only available at a cheaper price to occupants in that country. I know it works that way for french car brands.
Honestly, when it comes to helping their national companies get ahead in the global market, European countries aren’t that different from anywhere else. It’s like a global game where everyone’s trying to sneak their products into the lead with a little help from home. Think of it as governments giving their players the best gear, secret strategies, and even a map of shortcuts. Whether it’s subsidies, regulatory loopholes, or strategic support, the end goal is the same: make sure our team wins, even if it means bending the rules of fair play. So next time you see a European car or product leading the pack, remember, it might have had a little “help” getting there.
China actually doing something about the climate crisis, and they actively get in the way. Shows how far our govs will go to prevent us from fixing this world.
As the world’s largest electricity producer with around 30% of global output, China still heavily depends on cheap coal. What happens in China is everything but ecological so far, unfortunately, very much as in the West.
That aside, Chinese cars are cheap not in the least through the use of forced labour in Xinjiang. It’s a serious human rights problem, too.
I thought the forced labour was in the aluminium itself? Which is a far bigger problem because it’s embedded deep in the supply chain. So everything from your kitchen foil to your Polestar EV will be affected.
As for their domestic electricity, yes they have a lot of coal. They also have a lot, and very very rapidly increasing amounts of solar. Last year (if you fully believe their figures) they added 216.9 GW of solar capacity in comparison the USA added 35.3 GW.
A lot of electricity is still made with fossil fuels and new cars (even electric) are worse for the environment than buying used
On top of that China is trying to get rid of competition with subsidies
It’s not as black and white as you think
The rest are fine arguments, but this one:
A lot of electricity is still made with fossil fuels
is bad for several reasons:
- power generation from fossil fuels gets more efficient when scaled up
- fossil power plants can filter out more emissions than cars can
- EVs can switch to better electricity sources, fossil burners will always be using fossil fuels
- power plants are situated away from population centres reducing the amount of localised air pollution that people breathe in. (I feel people sometimes forget that there’s additional dangers of air pollution other than the climate crisis)
Great point, thanks for adding!
We are in the middle of a climate crisis where every year of inaction dooms countless to death or at the very least catastrophically reduced quality of life.
It is absolutely one of the few things that is actually black and white.
Is China playing unfair? Yes, but it really doesn’t matter at this point, they are making more EVs and the correct response at this point is just to do the same.
We are in an emergency, act accordingly.
I’d argue the correct response is to make more electric buses and other forms of mass transport. Then incentivise the use of public transport (and or self powered transport) and discourage the use of private transport entirely.
Absolutely, no disagreement there, especially in the US bus systems are our best hope in many respects (honestly even fossil fuel burning busses have to be orders of magnitude better for the environment than everyone driving EV cars) but if the choice is between EV cars and gas cars the choice is clear.
Slavery or forced labour, which is arguably a major economic driver for EV in China, is not the solution. We don’t act accordingly if we allow something like that.
By this logic buying any modern electronic devices or tools is not acting accordingly.
Also, I’m sorry I just don’t buy that this has anything to do with giving a shit about Chinese workers, it’s about portraying China as the Big Bad .
By this logic buying any modern electronic devices or tools is not acting accordingly.
This is largely true, and it is largely true because a lot of modern electronic devices -or at least some of their parts- are ‘Made in China’.
Europe must urgently work to gain back its production capabilities and force out any unfair competition, whoever this is or will be.
