Im seeing a lot of things, on some communities. Like they could be nazis or denying the Uighur’s genocide.
What are we talking about exactly.
So pls, explain me like I’m 5 :)
Ty all
Edit : ty all very much for your answers. Morality for me : clearly don’t give a shit sometimes, can help to be mindfull. Basics that’s what I’ve should take care of. Its fediverse. And in bonus they are not fucking naziiiiiii :)
The two biggest contributors to the original lemmy code are pro china and pro russia respectively. No one is sure how strong their opinions are, but there is a lot of fear mongering because their PFPs on GitHub are political. They created the first instance, lemmy, and the second, lemmygrad, using the same ip address.
Now, there’s two important things to keep in mind. Lemmygrad, which is a “tankie” (highly political) group, is set up separately from the main lemmy group. Not only does this keep lemmy from being highly political, it also allows all other groups to defederate from lemmygrad while staying connected to lemmy. Most groups have lemmygrad defederated by default.
In my opinion, this is the right way to do things and there’s nothing to worry about. But there are some people who think that since the creators are pro china and russia that it could be an attempt to “poison the well” of federation from the beginning. It comes from a biased belief that anything to do with the red scare is bad by default. The creators are not funneling money into political campaigns. They’re not asking everyone to agree with their beliefs or pushing their opinions in non political groups. They’re not able to remove communities that disagree with their philosophies.
Lemmy’s code is open source and it is easy for moderators to block political content if they choose. There’s going to be people with differing opinions. People who are socialist, or conservative, or anarchist are capable of creating good things. Plenty of people still buy from chick fil a or nestle even if they disagree with the group’s politics. As of now there is no issue. However, reddit refugees are currently sensitive to a) preexisting problems from reddit that could carry over into fediverse and b) leaders disagreeing with their beliefs.
TL;DR: it’s something that could potentially be a concern in the future, but isn’t a problem right now. With new users on edge it’s likely being blown way out of proportion.
Just to add, the devs don’t even want lemmy.ml to be the main instance. I signed up there initially but they have a sticky to encourage incoming users to use different instances so I figured it’s best to find another in case they get the hug. I stayed there only for a day or two but didn’t really encounter the censorship other users are claiming is happening there. There is the modlog anyway to check if there’s anything fishy going on . I’ve had a few interactions with the devs as well and they seem…polite and formal, even welcoming.
I agree it can be a concern, but right now it’s not. Remember, many users came from reddit and we all know the controversies that happened there. We still stayed.
I’d say be wary but don’t just listen to allegations. See for yourself so you can decide on your own.
I’m clearly agree, this post finally just permit me to be confident on what I thought despite on what I read there and there.
I hope it can help others to clear their mind on this false campaign against Lemmy. I can be agree or disagree with them, they don’t act to impose their idea to me and that’s the essential.
I will not even read the controversial topic. There is an difference between Lemmy.ml being lemmygrad and hosting on same server two instances of Lemmy (one controversial, one the vitrine). Its not clever but I mean, yoo there is more critical than that. And its free and open source. Its not like an fucking Tesla YO
Ty all.
They encourage to choose other instances because of the load, not because they don’t want users to sign up to that instance. If that wasn’t explained in the memo, yes, that should have been explained.
beehaw’s approach to modering is far worse if you ask me. We wanna filter everything out, so it’s simpler if we just defederate from instances all together. So, they defederated from sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world. What kind of an attitude is that. The whole point of having the fediverse is so everyone can connect with anyone, not have 63827383 accounts on thousands of different instances just so you can be a part of some of the communities that have set up shop on an instance that has snowflake users that report every single post they don’t like or agree with 😒.
Defederation should be removed as an option of you ask me. You don’t like a community? Block it. You don’t like a user? Block him/her. Beats the point of having a fediverse if you opened an account on an instance that blocks half the fediverse for one reason or another.
People need to actally look at where do they sign up on. I specifically choose mine because it appears to federate with everyone and I hope it will stay that way.
Yep, did the same. Looked for an instance that federated with everyone and has no plans to defederate with anyone.
I’m agree with you. All of that, make me think about taking an server and create my own instance.
I feel even admins can misunderstood what they do. There is differences between blocking an community and deferate. I don’t have the whole story, I’m new here. But it feel wrong to deferate just because we are not agree. If I own my instance, I will deferate if there is no choices ( attacks, raids, )
Like u Said i dont want to have Xaccounts, because admins think they will take care of me, or anything else.
For now here (FMHY) seems ok, but again i have no history on mine, and im too lazy to check too XD
People defederate for all sorts of reasons, mostly political and ideological, but… let’s be honest… there is a block option, it’s easy to use, defederation doesn’t solve anything IMO 🤷.
They encourage to choose other instances because of the load, not because they don’t want users to sign up to that instance. If that wasn’t explained in the memo, yes, that should have been explained.
It was. But if they were seriously using lemmy.ml as a propaganda tool, they could simply have upgraded instead of pushing others to use different instances.
For beehaw, I really can’t comment since I don’t think I know enough about it (or what’s going on in that instance). Tbh though I was a bit surprised they chose to defederate world and shitjustworks. I do get the lack of well-developed mod tools to handle stuff, but maybe there are other less drastic ways.
I’m not that familiar with the fediverse yet, but it would be nice if users can choose which instances to block. Or at least a majority vote before defederating (although that might encourage trolls or other people to join just to sway the vote). For now I’m mostly observing.
It was. But if they were seriously using lemmy.ml as a propaganda tool, they could simply have upgraded instead of pushing others to use different instances.
Which just confirms what I was saying. They’re not using it as a propaganda too. Will they tollerate posts/comments against communism/socialism? Most likely not. Hey, it’s their right. Though, yes, I do believe that if they do that, it has to be stated in the rules of the instance, not just randomly applied (posts/comments just deleted, users banned, etc.).
For beehaw, I really can’t comment since I don’t think I know enough about it (or what’s going on in that instance). Tbh though I was a bit surprised they chose to defederate world and shitjustworks. I do get the lack of well-developed mod tools to handle stuff, but maybe there are other less drastic ways.
beehaw is your typical US based instance. A lot of people there claim that they’re liberal, but they’re just snowflakes if you ask me. They try and control the influx of posts/feeds, which is not what the fediverse is about if you ask me. But they chose their way, that’s fine, it’s their choice, but that’s just wrong if you ask me. On the other hand, everyone defederated from lemmygard, but lemmyrad didn’t defederate from anyone… talk about irony. Everyone blaming lemmygrad for being this or that, defederating from them, but lemmygrad doing the complete oposite 🤨 😂.
And there are tools that can cope with this problem. Don’t like a community/user? Block him/her. Heck, that’s what I did with all of the cats communities here. I do like cats, but not in every second post, and some people just make post after post of cats, so my feed was cluttered with posts of cats 😒. Don’t get me wrong, I love all animals, cats included, but it’s not why I joined Lemmy - to look at cute cats. But, it’s their right to post cats, and since I can’t control the feed, I did the next best thing, just block those communities 🤷.
And I didn’t removed to anyone about “too many cats on Lemmy”, which is just childish IMO. Don’t like it? Block it. It’s as simple as that.
I’m not that familiar with the fediverse yet, but it would be nice if users can choose which instances to block. Or at least a majority vote before defederating (although that might encourage trolls or other people to join just to sway the vote). For now I’m mostly observing.
That would be a better option if you ask me. User based blocking of instances, as well as users and communties. By default, you can view everytjing. Don’t like a user/community/instance? Block it.
Ty vm, So there is really nothing to talk about…
Lemmy.ml admins are most definitely in agreement with lemmygrad views. They’ve deleted posts and comments if it could be in any way conceivably anti china, yet allow denial of the Uygur genocide
People are worried because the tankie ideology they thought would be contained to lemmygrad is spilling over into the enforcement on lemmy.ml
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Shit I’m evil too aghhhhh
I admit I just glanced those documents, but I’m not seeing parts being pro CCP and DPRK. It appears to be just general socialism and communism ideals… A lot of it being stuff against CCP systems.
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Yes, some of them can overreact at time, I’ve seen it first hand, but in general, most of them are generally fairly reasonable people.
There isn’t anyone to defuse the situation. Most of reddit is US based, thus they don’t like communism, lemmy is made by people with socialist/communist beliefs, thus, things get hairy. It’s not so much the fact that they’re socialists/communists, the problem is mostly the eviliziation that communism received in the US during the cold war. People are scared of them, they were presented as evil in western media. Some things that were done were just wrong and evil, I’ll grant them that, no doubt, but so did the US. A perfect example is MK Ultra. And that’s only the things we know about, imagine how many things we have no idea that happened on both sides.
My point is, there are evil people and doings everywhere. The ideas behind democracy and communism are both pretty good (ecah one in it’s own way), but let’s face it, some of them were either poorly implemented, ignored or something completely oposite was done.
If you go looking you’ll find some fairly robust defenders of both Mao and Stalin to varying degrees of grossness.
Every server can also read every message, so there’s some of the ideology within the design philosophy too.
There’s no lemmy admin, there’s only admins for lemmy instances. Some instances like lemmygrad are far left and literal communists, while I’m sure there’s already some popping up that have nazi sympathizers.
Part of being a federated service means anyone can start up their own instances. The only thing that can be done is blocking problematic instances.
This is super important to take note of - the whole idea of a Fediverse is that if you don’t like a particular community or instance, you can create one of your own that subscribes to your ideals. It’s a feature not a bug.
I think a lot of people are going to have difficulty coming to terms with the implications. There are no doubt going to be unapologetic nazi instances out there at some point, if there aren’t some already.
I think the benefits outweigh the downsides, but it’s something people should keep in mind. You can’t just ban people from the fediverse like you can Reddit or Twitter.
I personally can see it both ways. I think the biggest problem we have in society atm is we live in echo chambers on the internet. So having a platform that makes that inherently a feature I’m against.
But at the same time the great thing about the fediverse is I can just roll my own instance that doesn’t ban anyone if I wanted to.
Exactly my thoughts 👍.
If things get more hairy, I might even just do that. It’ll be a lot of work maintaining it, but… IDK, maybe it will be worth it.
So creators ( all or one between many ) of Lemmy despite being ultra left or right, create their own instances to share theses problematics ideas ? And let the principal instance (who is promoting Lemmy ) clean of theses l ?
Sorry my English…
No. Anyone can create a lemmy server and have whatever rules they want. Other lemmy servers can block servers they do not like, but unlike Reddit there is no single admin team that can block someone from all lemmy servers.
Hey, it was me running an instance, I wouldn’t even block the nazi ones. I wouldn’t allow it on my instance, but I wouldn’t defderate. You don’t like it? Block it 🤷. I just hate snowflakes 😒.
I wouldn’t defederate from any instance, ever. Because there is a simple solution. Block it 😉.
Tough one, maybe I am oversimplifying it but I’ll try:
They hold personal beliefs that differ from other communities, and people are worried that they will promote those beliefs on the products/communities that they are involved in.
So they’re people who expressed some kind of opinion / belief and people are worried that they might decide to express those beliefs some more on the thing that they built for everyone to have discussions on?
Pretty much yeah
TY :) But we don’t know the believe of all the creators of Lemmy ? Just some ?
Bc limit I thought it was built by Nazis for Nazis .
Its different if its one between many. And its not my concern then ?
It’s not built by Nazis for Nazis.
Some opinions follow, because nothing is black/white.I’m pretty sure the Devs are Communists and are very anti-nazi, anti-racist, anti-facist. They have controversial opinions, so I think some people think/say they are Nazis.
You can read more about their opinions here: https://github.com/dessalines/essays and draw your own conclusions.Additionally, I’m fairly confident that they have separated those beliefs between lemmy.ml and lemmygrad, and I’m fairly confident they do a good job of moderating Lemmy so it doesn’t become lemmygrad2.
Some people who post thinking Lemmy is a bastion of free speech may get a shock when they get moderated. And they might equate such moderation to more extreme political beliefs or false equivalents.As for the Lemmy software, it is Free Open Source Software. It’s built for everyone. Literally the most socialist/communist thing there can be - advocating for public ownership.
I think there is enough vested interests in Lemmy, with enough skills behind it, that - if the main software somehow became an issue (unlikely) - that a dominant fork would emerge and everyone could migrate (there would be a period of turmoil during the transition).If you want my opinion:
You have nothing to worry about.
If you want a right/left/commy/socialist/safe-space/wholesome/techy/nazi community, there will be an instance that tailors towards it.
If you aren’t sure, you can pick an instance for now and get a feel of the fediverse, then create a new account on another instance when you find one that suits your sensibilities (I’m sure account migration is in the works).Yeah that’s what thought. Ty for the post. But I’m a little moron who is not fluent with English some times ^^ Now my mind on the subject is pretty clear
I hope ur comments and others will help fellas who are confused like I’ve been. Even I know, sometimes the doubt can take big roots on me.
This is the main appeal of Lemmy for me after spending some time on it. Comments like this ‘Thanks for explaining that, you’ve cleared things up for me’. Reasonable people having reasonable discussions.
I’m pretty sure the Devs are Communists and are very anti-nazi, anti-racist, anti-facist.
They most definitely are. In fact, a good portion of the community in lemmygrad is LGBTQ+ (over 20% by a recent anonimous survey done on lemmygrad) and every single one of them is respected there and has a voice.
Additionally, I’m fairly confident that they have separated those beliefs between lemmy.ml and lemmygrad, and I’m fairly confident they do a good job of moderating Lemmy so it doesn’t become lemmygrad2.
Not completely, to be pefectly honest, but generally (as in really close to 100%), yes. Though I have to admit that there were some cases where the admins on lemmy.ml did overstep their power, I will admit to that. But these were very few cases and I believe things could have been settled through conversation.
As for the Lemmy software, it is Free Open Source Software. It’s built for everyone. Literally the most socialist/communist thing there can be - advocating for public ownership.
Exactly my thoughts. The software is GPL licensed, it doesn’t get any more communist/socialist than that. By the community, for the community. Sure they get to call the shots on the repo, but you don’t like it? Fork it 🤷.
Yes. And the people complaining (that replied to my comments in a thread about it) are so rabidly anti-maybe-the-global-West-media-are-also-heavily-propagandized, they literally can’t tolerate someone tolerating the idea.
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Even if they do promote them, that’s their right, as much as it is our right to promote capitalsm and/or democracy… others may promote anarchy, nazism, etc. Hey, it’s their right 🤷. You don’t like it? Block that community/user, it’s that simple.
Fediverse is diverse. Curious to see how it plays out.
I don’t know much about the devs, but honestly it doesn’t matter. The devs could be nazis for all I care, the code is what matters. The code is open source, so you can see any malicious codes if they tried to inject any. Evil people sometimes make great things. Hitler has a few piece of decent (keyword: decent, not great by any meaningful standards) art, even tho he was a genocidal piece of trash. Just because you appreciate the art, doesn’t mean you support nazism. (The analogy is a bit extreme but you get the point.)
The most prominent extrimist community, lemmygrad.ml has been defederated by most big instances. Any instance that is considered unacceptable can be defederated at any time by the instance admin. Lemmy does not currently have a extremist issue.
They’re not nazis, they’re communists, there’s a big difference.
There’s also a big difference between a communist and a tankie
Please do explain, because I really don’t know the difference.
Well I think I worded that poorly, a communist is a pretty large term referring to a lot of different ideas, so you can’t really say what a communist believes exactly. A tankie is a subsection of communists who want an authoritarian state that holds all power and are supportive or regimes like the USSR and Mao Zedong China (which imho were horrible regimes that has destroyed a lot of lives). Now I don’t care about tankies and I don’t care about the ideology so I know very little of it (so I might be far of reality here), but I don’t think nazis and tankies are so far off in “horribleness”
How is ruling with an iron fist the same as irradicting entire nations/races?
Well I think that nazi germany was worse, but I think that comparing Stalin USSR and Hitler Germany and saying that one is worse than the other is like comparing dog shit and earwax to what is the better food. I’d probably choose earwax over dog shit, but it doesn’t say much about either. If someone says “I don’t care if it’s dog shit or earwax, I’d still eat” and someone else comes in and says “I think earwax is a lot better” i think it’s kinda absurd and doesn’t really change a lot about the original statement.
So back to the original point of the lemmy creators were nazis instead, it would not change anything about if we should fork it or not. There are a lot of crazy open source devs with crazy political ideas that create amazing products and the product is not the same as the creator :)
And also I’m not super well versed I this, so if you think I’m wrong please explain to me why you think that. These are my opinions, but I’m not a scholar or anything
You don’t want me to start comparing the US ruling order with USSR, trust me, you don’t wanna go down that path.
Everyone’s got skeletons in their closet. The point is you’re comparing the ruling of Stalin to earwax. I could say the same about the US in general. Maybe ruling with an iron fist is better in some scenarios, have you thought about that? I could give you some that were actually pretty successful as societies, until the rulers died or were overthown by the US (which had no business meddling and trying to impose their social/economical order on others, but hey, surprise surprise, they did… because, of course, they’re stringer and always right about everything 😒).
My point is, there are negative sides, sure, no doubt about that, but if you take the positive sides of any type of social order (hell, even nacizm), you can learn a lot, not to mention make current societies even better. Not everything in any social order is good and not everything is bad, but take the ideas that lie behind socialism and you’ll see that, in general, the ideas are pretty good - give power back to the working class… basically, the people that make the world go roun. Just because a leader chose to rule with an iron fist, doesn’t mean the society is bad or that everything he did was bad. Trust me when I say, this, I’ve lived long enough to experience socialism and democracy/capitalism first hand. There are lessons that can be taken from democracy, no doubt there, but there were valid reasons why ruling with an iron fist was a better solution. I could go on explaining why, but that’s beside the scope of this post. If you’re interested, I could get into more detail.
I honestly don’t care about the political views of the administrators as long as they keep moderation politically unslanted. The second they add in politics like Reddit did, I’m gone again. Real freedom of expression is allowing everybody to have their opinion. As a writer I know that freedom of expression is one of the few things that make life worth living.
That’s why I got my own domain in the end, because I was tired of social media censoring me.
And the great thing is, if the admins turn into spez, we can just defederate them and bobs yer uncle. That’s what makes this better than reddit.
