We can all agree that alcohol isn’t bad by itself and that we can learn to use it safely (don’t drink too much, knowing when we had enough etc…). And yet we keep away alcohol from children. Why? Because it is a well-known fact that children may not have the capability to limit themselves; they might very well become addicted and fall into it.
Why should it be any different for mobile phones? We know it can become an addiction. And we also know that children do not have the means to limit themselves because of their young age.
Deliberately letting a kid having a phone for an indefinite amount of time is being irresponsible. What would be responsible is only allowing to use the phone for a limited time.
Schools banning phone could be one way towards that. It would be a good way too because the kid would not be suffering from any social pressure from their peers as everyone would be concerned with the ban.
I started learning to code at 9 years old and that helped me become a professional developer in my teens. Preventing access to technology is just removing opportunities from your children. Teach them responsible usage, if it was possible 30 years ago it’s possible now.
Staring down enshittified platforms instead of learning actual social interaction. 👌
E: This may come off as it’s their fault. That’s not the case of course. That’s why adults are having this conversation. The adults before them built the system that gave us these companies which create those enshittified platforms in the neverending search of profit.
Which is fine. Programming is only an example of where opportunity was found in his time, not where current/future people will find opportunity. We don’t know what the new opportunities will be. If we did, we’d have already opportunized them to death.
They learn to customize their phones, can figure out how to build apps for them, etc. Mobile programming is, predictably, a very good skill to have right now.
Yeah, and they can learn that during a class or vocational semester for the subject, but everyone needs a solid baseline in core subjects without being constantly distracted.
I’m all in to get programming classes where children learn to code on PCs. That’s a high pass for me. But AFAIK children aren’t doing programming on their phones.
In general i doubt using a phone at school is going to help them program or teach them about technology. They have plenty of time to explore phones on their own when they get home, especially now that kids don’t go much outside anymore. It’s not like a school ban would be cutting that away from them.
I mean my dad had me help him code a game on his commodore 64 at 5 but my internet usage in 1999 was still monitored. My dad made sure I understood the dangers and implications of interacting with people online and I knew exactly how to rebuff any kind of solicitation. I never gave names, exact locations etc, when using chats of course asl was a popular thing to ask and I never was more specific than USA. I have also lied about my sex when I’d participate in chats where I found identifying as a girl got me nehative attention. Even then, when my dad wasn’t around, as he trusted us after some time… I somehow got porn pop-ups all over my screen and I have to say that I wish I hadn’t seen some of the stuff on there lol!
We didn’t have social media in its present form but youtube became a thing while I was in college and I made the mistake of posting some videos of myself which I’m glad I removed shortly after realizing how embarrassing and cringeworthy they were. I’m just glad the posts I made on street fighter online forums and new grounds weren’t on something like Facebook or tik tok… as an adult I went back and deleted these profiles and posts because I obviously was too immature to post. I can’t believe what kind if drivel teenage me was spewing online and I’m glad there isn’t video evidence of the idiotic things I said and believed.
I personally don’t care as I stopped teaching before this social media boom but if adults can be twisted and manipulated, pushed toward extremism and critical thinking goes in the backburner, I can’t imagine what it does to the mind of a child. Smart phones are great tools if you can somehow limit their functions while in the classroom like some kind of school mode.
This is just a bad comparison, comparing a drug to electronics makes literally 0 sense.
We don’t let kids eat during class because it’s disruptive, should we ban eating in schools all together? Kids aren’t allowed to play sports in the hallways, sports can cause injuries, ban sports at school?
That’s the logic of this comparison, that is, none at all.
I am comparing a drug to a drug that’s the whole point. Phones are drugs. For adults and children alike.
The problem is not in the phone itself. It’s in the lack of doing things that kids should normally be doing at that age. They will play with their phone instead of playing physically (less tonus), sleeping (constant tiredness), talking with their parents (learning) or other kids (socializing).
I know kids like that in my family. You can tell from the dark lines under their eyes that they spend most of their day staring at a screen. And if you ask them to play outside they just don’t know what to do, they need access to a screen even with other kids. It’s really a scary sight. And its a drug yes
It’s an analogy. It’s inaccurate as all analogies are. Yet it’s useful to make the point that banning children from doing X or Y isn’t unprecedented or unacceptable.
Kids go to school for much more than what they learn in class. A fully formed human being that can function in a society requires a lot of social interaction training. That’s what school is for in-between classes. If kids are staring down their phones during that time instead of interacting with each other, that training is lost. Worse, instead of that, they get trained on a false social reality as portrayed by whatever enshittified platform they’re currently on, based on whatever behavior makes the most money today. Is this enough to visualize the damage phones in hallways cause?
We can all agree that alcohol isn’t bad by itself and that we can learn to use it safely (don’t drink too much, knowing when we had enough etc…). And yet we keep away alcohol from children. Why? Because it is a well-known fact that children may not have the capability to limit themselves; they might very well become addicted and fall into it.
Why should it be any different for mobile phones? We know it can become an addiction. And we also know that children do not have the means to limit themselves because of their young age.
Deliberately letting a kid having a phone for an indefinite amount of time is being irresponsible. What would be responsible is only allowing to use the phone for a limited time.
Schools banning phone could be one way towards that. It would be a good way too because the kid would not be suffering from any social pressure from their peers as everyone would be concerned with the ban.
I started learning to code at 9 years old and that helped me become a professional developer in my teens. Preventing access to technology is just removing opportunities from your children. Teach them responsible usage, if it was possible 30 years ago it’s possible now.
Nobody does programming on their phones
Staring down enshittified platforms instead of learning actual social interaction. 👌
E: This may come off as it’s their fault. That’s not the case of course. That’s why adults are having this conversation. The adults before them built the system that gave us these companies which create those enshittified platforms in the neverending search of profit.
Which is fine. Programming is only an example of where opportunity was found in his time, not where current/future people will find opportunity. We don’t know what the new opportunities will be. If we did, we’d have already opportunized them to death.
They learn to customize their phones, can figure out how to build apps for them, etc. Mobile programming is, predictably, a very good skill to have right now.
Yeah, and they can learn that during a class or vocational semester for the subject, but everyone needs a solid baseline in core subjects without being constantly distracted.
I’m all in to get programming classes where children learn to code on PCs. That’s a high pass for me. But AFAIK children aren’t doing programming on their phones.
In general i doubt using a phone at school is going to help them program or teach them about technology. They have plenty of time to explore phones on their own when they get home, especially now that kids don’t go much outside anymore. It’s not like a school ban would be cutting that away from them.
I mean my dad had me help him code a game on his commodore 64 at 5 but my internet usage in 1999 was still monitored. My dad made sure I understood the dangers and implications of interacting with people online and I knew exactly how to rebuff any kind of solicitation. I never gave names, exact locations etc, when using chats of course asl was a popular thing to ask and I never was more specific than USA. I have also lied about my sex when I’d participate in chats where I found identifying as a girl got me nehative attention. Even then, when my dad wasn’t around, as he trusted us after some time… I somehow got porn pop-ups all over my screen and I have to say that I wish I hadn’t seen some of the stuff on there lol! We didn’t have social media in its present form but youtube became a thing while I was in college and I made the mistake of posting some videos of myself which I’m glad I removed shortly after realizing how embarrassing and cringeworthy they were. I’m just glad the posts I made on street fighter online forums and new grounds weren’t on something like Facebook or tik tok… as an adult I went back and deleted these profiles and posts because I obviously was too immature to post. I can’t believe what kind if drivel teenage me was spewing online and I’m glad there isn’t video evidence of the idiotic things I said and believed. I personally don’t care as I stopped teaching before this social media boom but if adults can be twisted and manipulated, pushed toward extremism and critical thinking goes in the backburner, I can’t imagine what it does to the mind of a child. Smart phones are great tools if you can somehow limit their functions while in the classroom like some kind of school mode.
This is just a bad comparison, comparing a drug to electronics makes literally 0 sense.
We don’t let kids eat during class because it’s disruptive, should we ban eating in schools all together? Kids aren’t allowed to play sports in the hallways, sports can cause injuries, ban sports at school?
That’s the logic of this comparison, that is, none at all.
I am comparing a drug to a drug that’s the whole point. Phones are drugs. For adults and children alike.
The problem is not in the phone itself. It’s in the lack of doing things that kids should normally be doing at that age. They will play with their phone instead of playing physically (less tonus), sleeping (constant tiredness), talking with their parents (learning) or other kids (socializing).
I know kids like that in my family. You can tell from the dark lines under their eyes that they spend most of their day staring at a screen. And if you ask them to play outside they just don’t know what to do, they need access to a screen even with other kids. It’s really a scary sight. And its a drug yes
Dopamine receptors outnumbering all others on their neurons.
It’s an analogy. It’s inaccurate as all analogies are. Yet it’s useful to make the point that banning children from doing X or Y isn’t unprecedented or unacceptable.
Kids go to school for much more than what they learn in class. A fully formed human being that can function in a society requires a lot of social interaction training. That’s what school is for in-between classes. If kids are staring down their phones during that time instead of interacting with each other, that training is lost. Worse, instead of that, they get trained on a false social reality as portrayed by whatever enshittified platform they’re currently on, based on whatever behavior makes the most money today. Is this enough to visualize the damage phones in hallways cause?
You’re so close the understanding the problem
I understand the problem, I agree that kids shouldn’t be on their phone in class. I stand by my point though, which is that this is a bad comparison.