Why do people hate us for who we are? I don’t get it

  • library_patron@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    2 years ago

    Only one of many reasons of course, but when I was living in a conservative part of the US, I ran into a lot of people whose perception of equality/inequality was very sensitive to “the rules are changing” as opposed to how people are affected by those rules. Since they or people they know have made a lot of sacrifices to conform to societal expectations, it strikes them as deeply unfair when such expectations are not enforced on others. It’s the sort kind of reaction you might have when playing a game, and midway through your opponent suddenly invokes a house rule they never told you about. Not only would you be upset about the surprise, but you might worry about getting caught off-guard again in the future or be suspicious that the house rule was made up on the spot to disadvantage you. But life isn’t just a game, and we don’t get any chances to play again, so, understandably, these people take actual societal changes much more seriously. What they don’t seem to focus on as much is whether the original societal expectations are beneficial or not—they may well be aware that society treats some groups badly, but see that as either an ineradicable problem or a necessary evil to avoid pulling the rug out mid-game. As someone with a pretty consequentialist outlook, that meant that these people and I were talking past each other a lot, not only on LGBTQA+ acceptance and rights, but on any issue where society is changing.

    Interestingly, for those who have being Christian as an important part of their identity, Jesus actually preaches against this kind of thinking in the parable of the laborers in the vineyard at the start of Matthew 20. I also happen to be Christian (though the kind that wonders how anyone could see the gospels as anything but pro-LGBTQA+), and I have had mild success bringing up this story and just finding some common ground on what “fair” means before getting into more specific topics.

  • isosphere@beehaw.org
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    2 years ago

    I think that the people who are most vocal in their hate are opening a window into their own internal judgement. They are filled with toxicity that is designed to keep people in line, to serve specific roles (man, especially). It spills outward, but it works inward too.

    If you believe in the importance of your Masculine Role™️, in the rigidity of it - and it’s the most important part of these people’s identity, everything revolves around it; trucks, guns, gettin’ er done, etc. - when you see people who reject your entire concept, its a personal attack. It calls into question the validity of their own identity, which they didn’t get to choose anyway - that was the point. Their minds are forced to contend with the reality of a diversity of gender/sexual expression - it either softens or hardens their hearts.

    Imagine being a manly man in manly ville who has defined their entire life around manliness. But hating it the entire time. The burden of a role you didn’t make for yourself. Accepting that you could have done different, been different, is hard, and their community makes it impossible.

    Obviously the right thing to do is to soften on traditional roles, for their own sake and others, and to reject pressure from everyone they know even if it means being alone. It’s hard to do.

  • animist@lemmy.one
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    2 years ago

    They’re brought up with constructed ideas of what masculinity and femininity are. Those ideas become ingrained in their identity. If something challenges that on any level they react negatively. Nearly all people are not 100% heterosexual or homosexual but instead exist on a spectrum. However if you don’t want your constructed identity challenged by feelings you might be having that aren’t heteronormative you’re going to push those feelings away and anybody associated with them. Most of these homophobes probably have at least some non-heteronormative desires or fantasies and so work extra hard to fight against them so society doesn’t perceive them as less masculine or less feminine. They would probably be so much happier if they just gave in and explored a bit.

    • BicyclejohnOP
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      2 years ago

      From mg experience you are right. Theyfeear the unkown. I got out of the cult a few months ago. They are just greedy ignorant assholes

        • BicyclejohnOP
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          2 years ago

          I just hope I didn’t hurt anyone. I had a friend who was also in the cult, we acted as an echo chamber. I’m worried its too late for him

          • UprisingVoltage@feddit.it
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            2 years ago

            it depends on the relationship you have and how deep he’s in it. You should prioritize your safety and your mental wellbeing.

            You could try to get him out, but only if you think it’s safe for you to do so

  • dog@yiffit.net
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    2 years ago

    i think a lot of it is projecting jealousy, fear, and most of the time just spouting ignorance passed down from generation to generation :/

  • NotAUser@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    2 years ago

    In addition to what everyone else said, conservatives have been using queer people as a wedge issue since the lavender scare. This didn’t create the initial hatred, but it definitely amplified it.

    • interolivary@beehaw.org
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      2 years ago

      The radicalization of the right is the biggest reason for the current rise of hate. The extremists have gotten much more extreme, and the “moderates” don’t disagree with them enough to really care to stand up to them.

  • CifrareVerba@kbin.social
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    2 years ago

    Considering, no one cared about gay men or women in history until Christian based religion dominated (see Greece, Rome, etc.) I blame religion. A lot of people aren’t going to read the bible, but cherry-pick it to suit their needs. Removing pedos (the cherry-picked same sex attracted ones) from the equation (as there were a lot, especially with Spartans and Romans), and there are still LGBT people, of age.

    The same bible that says gay people should be killed also says to love thy neighbor (ironic, as I am cherry-picking right now). I feel as if the only reason LGBT people are in the bible is someone had an agenda against someone they opposed, and decided to slander based on something like who they chose to slept with.

  • eSquared@beehaw.org
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    2 years ago

    In my case, it was simply a mixture of blind ignorance and the desire to fit in. As I grew up in a very conservative area of the U.S. Midwest, my entire adult family and most of my peers held bigoted views, and thus so did I. The environment of my upbringing was one of hate and ignorance, so it’s no surprise I would find myself hateful and ignorant as well. Of course, I’ve since left these views behind and realized I’m actually bisexual, but I could’ve easily fallen further down the alt-right pipeline.

    • BicyclejohnOP
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      2 years ago

      My situation was a lot like yours, let’s be glad we got out

  • sparklingsquirrel@feddit.de
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    2 years ago

    I’m not in the community and I don’t get it either. Why can’t people just let other people be themselves (if they don’t hurt anyone of course and aren’t mean and such)? I’m so sorry that you feel this way because you shouldn’t have to for just being you. I do my best and point people out if they use hateful language and why that’s hurtful to someone.

  • makingStuffForFun
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    2 years ago

    I’m not in the community. I don’t hate you. I think there’s extremists in all communities. So extremists in your community will piss off extremists in another community. And vice versa. I don’t know you personally. But, I’d say, if you’re a decent human, you’ll get along with most people. Except the extremists :-)

  • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.ca
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    2 years ago

    Human psychology looks for out groups to demonize. We humans get psychological benefits from doing this. It helps us cope, it helps us bond with our in groups. As pathetic as that may be.

    Right now, people are more scared for the future than they have been in generations. We are dealing with utterly unprecedented threats that have the capacity to actually end our current society. Fascism promises we can go back to a Better Time. It encourages people to blame all the fear and anger they feel on scapegoats. Charismatic personalities abuse and amplify these human tendencies for power. The seeds are there in all of us, waiting for the right conditions for hate to grow. It’s like the man says, you’re a whole different person when you’re scared.

    I think that the progress of the last 40 years has been made by showing people that homosexuals are not a separate group that can meaningfully be targeted but rather represents a cross section of every single community on Earth. It’s harder and harder to think of them as other. But unfortunately, that fight has to be fought over and over for every other marginalized group under our umbrella.

  • CheshireSnake@lemmy.one
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    2 years ago

    I just saw this on my feed. I’m not LGBTQ+ (nor subscribed here) but just wanted to drop in and say many of us don’t hate you. I personally have some friends from your community and love hanging out with them. Keep your chin up.

  • aha@beehaw.org
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    2 years ago

    I thin that, besides all of the other comments here, there’s also a misconception regarding LGBTQ along phobes. Phobes have negative ideas in their head when they hear LGBTQ, and these ideas were born from misunderstanding. When you actually start explaining concepts as gender dysphoria for example to phobes, there is a pretty big chance they will become allies

  • BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de
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    2 years ago

    I don’t have anything useful to say other than: I am a cis person who doesn’t despise anything about the LGBT community. Of course a lot of the stuff is not my taste, but for me you are mainly people. And I like people…
    Be yourself, be proud of yourself and what you’ve acomplished and coming out is an acomplishment

    I don’t get what the fuck these dumb religios people have against the community or queer people in general, I don’t get what politicians have against you eigher… I guess because you are different and a minority they think they can belittle you for their own good while proudle swinging the american flag or something…