I think that it’s useful to look at older events, in the light of the newer ones. You won’t change the past, but you’ll understand the present better.

Also keep in mind that I’m not American, so I’m not really attached to all this discussion about Trump. I’m strictly focusing on Reddit here.

In 2019, the subreddit The_Donald (onwards, “TD”) was quarantined, under the allegation it was promoting violence against cops. The same subreddit would be then banned in 2020, as Reddit changed its content policy to disallow hate discourses.

The tweet that @Reddit then released was the following:

>“As Snoos, we do not tolerate hate, racism, and violence, and while we have work to do to fight these on our platform, our values are clear.” // A letter from CEO Steve Huffman.

Let’s skip the hilarious “as snoos”, showing how clueless Spez is about his fiefdom’s community. And let us ask the following question:

Was TD a hate subreddit? (I know, I know, might as well ask if two plus two equals four; but let us entertain the doubt, for a single moment.)

If it was not a hate subreddit, then it shouldn’t have been deleted in 2020. Under this unlikely, Devil’s Lawyer style hypothesis, Reddit is lying about the reasons why that subreddit was banned.

However, even if we acknowledge that TD was a hate subreddit, it should not have been quarantined; instead it should’ve been banned on the spot. What changed in the meantime that prompted Reddit to quarantine a subreddit until it was devoid of activity, only to delete it months later under another reason?

Perhaps the values of the company changed, in such a short time. Or the company is lying about holding values that it does not. No matter how you address this, Reddit does NOT stand against hate, racism, or violence. Ellen Pao, its former CEO (2014-15) is being spot on, when she says that

>I am obligated to call you out: You should have shut down the_donald instead of amplifying it and its hate, racism, and violence. So much of what is happening now lies at your feet. You don’t get to say BLM when reddit nurtures and monetizes white supremacy and hate all day long

Reddit Inc.'s actions get more understandable if you acknowledge that:

  1. It is a business. As such, it seeks profit maximisation.
  2. There is no guiding principle for or against hate discourses within the company. Or any other social cause. They’ll simply play with both sides as long as profitable.
  3. Steve Huffman sees no problem on lying to the users, when it is convenient to do so.
  4. Given that this fucker became CEO of Reddit again, those lies have the implicit agreement of the rest of the company.

Let’s recontextualise those four points into the light of the current events.

  • The third party mod tools will have free API access. Does Reddit care about its users, including moderators? (No; see #4, if you’re eager to lie to someone you don’t care about them.)
  • Huffman claims that the Apollo developer threatened them, then backs down as a “joke”. Is this anyhow credible, given Huffman’s previous behaviour? (No; see #3.)
  • Reddit Inc. is now claiming that API access will be free for disability-focused apps. Does Reddit care about blind users? (No; see point #2, they don’t care about marginalised groups). EDIT: as @crank@beehaw.org correctly pointed out, this only applies to non-commercial apps.
  • Why is Reddit so fucking scummy? (See #1.)

The API events are just the tip of the iceberg. Don’t be fooled by thinking that Reddit will magically become better over time; it won’t.

  • crank@beehaw.org
    2·
    2 years ago

    they also banned the chapo trap house sub at the same time as the donald in a very weird "both sides"ism. but in the end look who won: donald trump, chapo still has a podcast.

    It is a business. As such, it seeks profit maximisation.

    does it? per /u/spez’s statement it has not and has never been profitable.

    API access will be free for disability-focused apps

    I have to correct that. Only applies to non-commercial apps. They are enforcing a policy of only making use of unpaid labor.

    What did Ellen Pao do to prevent the nurturing and monetization of white supremacy and hate all day long?

    • LvxferreOPM
      2·
      2 years ago

      Perhaps CTH was not banned just as a "both sides"ism, but because Reddit was already wanting to do it and they found the perfect excuse to do so, while people are focused on something else. Because, ultimately, it’s against the interests of Reddit Inc. to allow in its platform a community built around a podcast where two communists criticise capitalism, corporation, alienation of the labourer, alienation of the customer, etc.

      does it? per /u/spez’s statement it has not and has never been profitable.

      It does, in a rather complex way.

      For the founders and anyone “in the long run”, it’s fine if the company is slightly unprofitable in the short term, as long as it’s accumulating value for later profit. It’s literally a long term investment.

      The picture changes for other investors, specially the ones there for the short-term investments: they’re OK destroying value for short-term profits, even if this hurts the ability of the company to generate profits in the long run, because they won’t be there in the long run anyway.

      Also, note that we should never trust spez. He has a nasty tendency to lie, specially about things that are either hard or impossible to prove.

      I have to correct that. Only applies to non-commercial apps. They are enforcing a policy of only making use of unpaid labor.

      I’ll fix the OP with this new info. Thank you for pointing it out!

      What did Ellen Pao do to prevent the nurturing and monetization of white supremacy and hate all day long?

      Not much. Perhaps she should herself be blamed for this; or perhaps she tried to address it, they hated her for that, and then she was out.

      Regardless of that, even if she should be also blamed for this, the point still remains: her tweet is spot on.

    • LvxferreOPM
      7·
      2 years ago

      In this specific case, what’s a “hate discourse” is extremely clear: it is a discourse targetting marginalised groups based on race, sex, sexuality, religion, so goes on. TD engaged on this, period.

      But, contextually more importantly: as I’ve demonstrated, even if TD did not engage in hate discourses, Reddit is still a scummy piece of shit and still handled the whole situation poorly, in a way that everyone and their dog can see that Reddit is lying about its own values.

        • LvxferreOPM
          3·
          2 years ago

          I feel like this discussion is considerably deeper than I’m able to go through. As I mentioned in the OP, I’m not from USA and… frankly I don’t know (or care) about their presidents. In fact, that’s why my reasoning handles both possibilities.

          As such, take every single thing that I’m going to say with a grain of salt.

          I don’t rule out the possibility that some TD members were just there for the memes, and did not personally engage on hate discourses.

          I also don’t rule out the possibility that the “echo chamber effect” (“basically all subreddits willingly and actively marginalize any dissenting opinion”) has been one of the factors that prompted so many Reddit users to try to deplatform TD.

          However, I do not think that it was the only one, given what Ellen Pao said, plus this article, plus other sources widely found across the internet. And they used TD for that, with the subreddit moderators’ implicitly allowing it. It was a hate community, even if perhaps not all members of said community were spreading hate.

          And, if I recall correctly [I may be wrong, but I do not think that I am], that Trump guy himself engaged on hate discourse; couple that with what yourself said (“public worship of their Presidential nominee, and then acting President”) and it’s easy to see where it leads.