It is a key feature of propagandists that factual conversations tend to get sidelined in favor of emotional appeal or blatant hostility, often centered around quick one-liner arguments or he-said-she-said hostility (often with the positions mischaracterized or exaggerated to the point of caricature, as in this example).
I said US foreign policy is pretty bad and Biden support monsters
They said I’m sucking Biden’s dick and mocked the idea that there’s a difference between the parties
I asked how Biden is as bad as Trump
Hostility, “removed,” “did you hit your head,” and a sudden shift to asserting that both parties aren’t the same.
The Card Says Moops lays out a lot of how it works. The hostility because both parties are the same has now transformed into hostility alongside the fact that they’re not the same; the facts have morphed 180 degrees to suit what will “win” the current exchange, but the bitterness and hostility is the constant.
(Edit: Further more explicit example, I quickly looked back in this person’s history and found “As a Canadian, yeah both of your right wing parties are essentially the same.”)
I could point out that I literally criticized Biden in a couple different ways during my message #1, but it won’t change the flow of the conversation. My guess is we’ll now shift to a new non sequitur attack.
In a normal conversation, you’d just openly clarify what you actually believe and we could move past it. I literally quoted you two different ways in the very message you’re responding to, seeming to say that Biden is as bad as Trump.
If I’ve gotten you wrong or I’m missing context to the statements I quoted, then you can just say hey, here’s what I actually think, and after the clarification we can have a productive factual conversation, whether we ultimately agree or disagree. But it seems like you’re not into that.
This has been far from a normal conversation, my friend. You jump to conclusions too fast. I think Trump is fucking ridiculous. Why would I waste my time trying to convince his cult to change policy, when Joe Biden (the current president FYI) has some chance to listen to reason.
I’ll say it again, and I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for it here, but criticism of the democratic party or Joe Biden is not de facto support for trump.
If you have to silence valid critics, your country is lost and you should start again.
But it seems like you’re not into that.
Yeah I wonder why I wouldn’t wanna talk to somebody who doesn’t address my criticism, and just tries to psychoanalyze my apparent political leaning 🙄
Why would I waste my time trying to convince his cult to change policy, when Joe Biden (the current president FYI) has some chance to listen to reason.
Quoting myself from earlier in the thread: “If you were incessantly posting articles about productive ways to push the establishment Democrats to the left, and support for the rare handful of them that actually represent the people decently well, you and I would be very much on the same page, but just relentlessly shitting on Biden is something that I feel like giving a response to.”
(And, for what it’s worth, I feel almost as irritated at articles relentlessly shitting on Trump for some trivial thing; he slurred his words for 2 seconds or he dropped a water bottle or something. It’s just not relevant and it takes bandwidth away from talking about things that are extremely relevant.)
criticism of the democratic party or Joe Biden is not de facto support for trump.
Quoting myself from very very recently: “I could point out that I literally criticized Biden in a couple different ways during my message #1, but it won’t change the flow of the conversation.”
(And, indeed, it hasn’t. You didn’t say anything along the lines of “Oh, I get it, you are open to criticizing Biden for his Israel policy or his friendship with the corporate-apocalypse world in general, and have done it yourself, let me absorb that and we can start to converse along different lines even if we still disagree on some significant issues.” Nope, just more telling me what I believe even when I’m explicitly telling you otherwise, and then calling me “removed” and beating up on the imaginary belief you’ve assigned to me.)
If you have to silence valid critics
Me disagreeing with you is in no way shape or form “silencing” you. That equivalence is another standard propaganda technique. If you feel slighted when I “psychoanalyze” you, stop using conservative propagandistic strawmen that are so well-known they’re a cliché at this point.
I was more so referring to the general downvotes of basic facts about the administration. It makes the dems look like the rabid cult followers of trump and fox news.
I don’t feel slighted, I feel like I’m talking to someone with very little understanding of basic social interaction.
I was more so referring to the general downvotes of basic facts about the administration. It makes the dems look like the rabid cult followers of trump and fox news.
Lemmy, in general, is cultishly anti-establishment-Democrat more than pro. They rightly got very up in arms about Biden’s recent support for Israel, for example, almost unanimously.
We’re talking to one another under the fourth article some guy posted in 24 hours re-emphasizing that Biden forgot something or misspoke in some minor way, though. “A nightmare.” “His most potent political weakness.” Et cetera. Lemmy’s hivemind, for all its flaws, I think is actually pretty on point about identifying this type of clickbaity journalistic malpractice and downvoting it. Saying bias is clearly the reason they must be doing it, when if you take a step back and analyze for the claimed bias, it’s actually in the opposite direction, is… I feel like I’m repeating myself… another standard conservative propaganda trope.
It is a key feature of propagandists that factual conversations tend to get sidelined in favor of emotional appeal or blatant hostility, often centered around quick one-liner arguments or he-said-she-said hostility (often with the positions mischaracterized or exaggerated to the point of caricature, as in this example).
The Card Says Moops lays out a lot of how it works. The hostility because both parties are the same has now transformed into hostility alongside the fact that they’re not the same; the facts have morphed 180 degrees to suit what will “win” the current exchange, but the bitterness and hostility is the constant.
(Edit: Further more explicit example, I quickly looked back in this person’s history and found “As a Canadian, yeah both of your right wing parties are essentially the same.”)
I could point out that I literally criticized Biden in a couple different ways during my message #1, but it won’t change the flow of the conversation. My guess is we’ll now shift to a new non sequitur attack.
Observe:
Nobody said Biden is as bad as trump my guy.
In a normal conversation, you’d just openly clarify what you actually believe and we could move past it. I literally quoted you two different ways in the very message you’re responding to, seeming to say that Biden is as bad as Trump.
If I’ve gotten you wrong or I’m missing context to the statements I quoted, then you can just say hey, here’s what I actually think, and after the clarification we can have a productive factual conversation, whether we ultimately agree or disagree. But it seems like you’re not into that.
This is why I linked to “The Card Says Moops.”
This has been far from a normal conversation, my friend. You jump to conclusions too fast. I think Trump is fucking ridiculous. Why would I waste my time trying to convince his cult to change policy, when Joe Biden (the current president FYI) has some chance to listen to reason.
I’ll say it again, and I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for it here, but criticism of the democratic party or Joe Biden is not de facto support for trump.
If you have to silence valid critics, your country is lost and you should start again.
Yeah I wonder why I wouldn’t wanna talk to somebody who doesn’t address my criticism, and just tries to psychoanalyze my apparent political leaning 🙄
Quoting myself from earlier in the thread: “If you were incessantly posting articles about productive ways to push the establishment Democrats to the left, and support for the rare handful of them that actually represent the people decently well, you and I would be very much on the same page, but just relentlessly shitting on Biden is something that I feel like giving a response to.”
(And, for what it’s worth, I feel almost as irritated at articles relentlessly shitting on Trump for some trivial thing; he slurred his words for 2 seconds or he dropped a water bottle or something. It’s just not relevant and it takes bandwidth away from talking about things that are extremely relevant.)
Quoting myself from very very recently: “I could point out that I literally criticized Biden in a couple different ways during my message #1, but it won’t change the flow of the conversation.”
(And, indeed, it hasn’t. You didn’t say anything along the lines of “Oh, I get it, you are open to criticizing Biden for his Israel policy or his friendship with the corporate-apocalypse world in general, and have done it yourself, let me absorb that and we can start to converse along different lines even if we still disagree on some significant issues.” Nope, just more telling me what I believe even when I’m explicitly telling you otherwise, and then calling me “removed” and beating up on the imaginary belief you’ve assigned to me.)
Me disagreeing with you is in no way shape or form “silencing” you. That equivalence is another standard propaganda technique. If you feel slighted when I “psychoanalyze” you, stop using conservative propagandistic strawmen that are so well-known they’re a cliché at this point.
I was more so referring to the general downvotes of basic facts about the administration. It makes the dems look like the rabid cult followers of trump and fox news.
I don’t feel slighted, I feel like I’m talking to someone with very little understanding of basic social interaction.
Can’t wait for your next wall of text.
Lemmy, in general, is cultishly anti-establishment-Democrat more than pro. They rightly got very up in arms about Biden’s recent support for Israel, for example, almost unanimously.
We’re talking to one another under the fourth article some guy posted in 24 hours re-emphasizing that Biden forgot something or misspoke in some minor way, though. “A nightmare.” “His most potent political weakness.” Et cetera. Lemmy’s hivemind, for all its flaws, I think is actually pretty on point about identifying this type of clickbaity journalistic malpractice and downvoting it. Saying bias is clearly the reason they must be doing it, when if you take a step back and analyze for the claimed bias, it’s actually in the opposite direction, is… I feel like I’m repeating myself… another standard conservative propaganda trope.
Lack of substantive response noted
🙄 Have a nice day.
Go on, have another go. I do this for a living; I love it.