Your claim: “root server, self-hosted everything and FOSS. If you can’t do your things with that, it ain’t worth doing anyway.”
Do you really think I need to “reason” why this is utter nonsense? Fine, here you go. My elderly technically barely-literate father and mother are supposed to self-host their email servers so as not to just use Gmail? Old people who don’t speak English and use Netflix or HBO or whatever to stream movies and TV series are supposed to self host Jellyfin and torrent their stuff? They’re supposed to use OpenStreetMap to find directions around the city instead of Google Maps, because “privacy”?
Maybe my grandparents should run GrapheneOS.
Or perhaps you’re suggesting that, since they can’t root server and self-host FOSS stuff instead of using off-the-shelf products, they should just not watch anything other than cable TV, and write letters by hand and post them. And if they need to go somewhere that they don’t know the way to, they should just ask for directions on the street (and hope the person they’re asking doesn’t just pull up Google Maps, since then they’d be using it by proxy!), oldschool style.
This is not viable, feasible, or possible. “Millions and millions are doing it” tells me you have little understanding of the scale at which modern technology is used. There are an estimated 7 billion smartphones in the world. Almost 2 billion gmail accounts. So the fact that “millions” are using self-hosted FOSS alternatives means… basically nothing.
Home cooking has been a staple human activity for millennia. It is widespread, it’s a skill passed on from one generation to the next, slowly ingrained in people. And even then, the majority of people are absolutely trash at cooking, can barely cobble together one or two recipes, buy ready-made meals, have others cook for them, order out or go to restaurants. Your “root server, self-hosted everything and FOSS. If you can’t do your things with that, it ain’t worth doing anyway.” could be “buy your own ingredients and home-cook every meal you eat. If you can’t do your things with that, eating ain’t worth it for you” and it would still have been utterly ridiculous despite billions more people in the world having the ability to do it.
You need to accept that self hosting and FOSS is for a fringe part of the population and suggesting it as the solution to the issues that currently exist with services like Steam or Google or Netflix is counter-productive. Maybe many generations from now it will be possible to have a sizeable amount of people using technology that way, but now ain’t it.
And by the way, I’ve been on the Internet since like 1998, I went through Napsters and DC++ and I torrented tons and tons of things for years and years. But even for me, the idea of doing what you suggest is absolutely exhausting and not something I really want to find the time to engage in. “It is just a matter of lifestyle and how much one values their own authority over things.”, you say, and you’re right. That’s a much more reasonable stance than your original comment. The truth is I don’t care too much about the authority I have over “my media” or “my data”.
Setting up that complicated FOSS stuff took me six hours, ten years ago. With another hour every six months to maintain, if at all, as most things update themselves. And you know what? My parents can use them too, as they are all set up to be multi-user by default.
You just don’t care. Why argue about it then, trying to make others not care, spreading your ignorance. Even calling me a fearmonger. You being afraid is not on me. It’s your own ignorance.
Perhaps, just perhaps, you should have taken a minute to learn about the tech you are using. Torrented for years, eh? And now you are the literal jock putting down nerds, because they did learn? And we nerds spent two decades at making it all easy. Installing your own cloud on a root server takes five clicks and ten minutes for heaven’s sake. Installing the root server itself is done in a matter of two hours. They even come hardened out of the box.
I can’t argue with ignorance. I’ve never talked about replacing each and every technology with FOSS. Just the sensible ones, the ones with money attached. With privacy attached.
And that is both cheap, and easy to do. And your parents could just hire someone. You know, like hiring a carpenter, doctor, gardener. Have you heard of businesses? You don’t have to spend ten minutes on it.
FOSS is being used by a fringe part of the population. Why change that, you don’t care. Why should anyone think differently?
You are strawmanning, adding new topics at will too. I can’t write a book here.
Feel free to take it as a win. I wonder though, why are you here, and not on reddit? Oh. Right. I would guess: because of your freedom and privacy, right? Did you get banned there? Your comments deleted? So you do care. Just not enough? Just a tiny portion of people use lemmy, after all.
Where to draw the line? Damn double standards, eh?
.
You accuse me of being afraid. Of what exactly? You’re the one afraid Gaben is going to pull the plug on Steam and other stuff like this. I’m not. You’re the one saying everything needs to be self-hosted FOSS. I don’t care if it’s not.
I don’t want to take anything as a win, but I realize now that you are so divorced from the reality in which we live that there’s no point continuing to debate. 80-year olds who can barely afford food should… hire businesses to root their phones and install self-hosted mail servers for them? That may work in some highly privileged places in the world, but do you have any idea what conditions the vast majority of humans on this planet live in? What their priorities are?
You say you “never talked about replacing each and every technology with FOSS.” but that’s exactly what you said in your first post and that’s what irritates me and what I take issue with. If your stance would have been “I like to self-host stuff for myself and family and use FOSS. You should look into it, it’s cool and not that hard”, I’d have upvoted you and not batted an eye. But you came in here with the sweeping generalisation that if you can’t root, self-hosted FOSS something “it ain’t worth doing”.
I never called anyone a nerd and I’m not sure why you feel like that’s the case.
And not that it should matter, but I’m not on reddit anymore since they killed RIF and I a) didn’t like their stance with regards to third party apps and b) can’t stand the official mobile app. Not really because of my privacy, and no I didn’t get banned.
Anyway, I accidentally came across another one of your posts on a different topic on here, and now I understand. I’m sorry for having engaged you at all and please accept my sympathies.
Have you heard about context? The post and my reply were about purchases and online data. And naturally, “everything FOSS” is about stuff you can run on said root-server. Which would be email and cloud-storage. Bought music and videos. Stuff of value.
It was also about people who care. I don’t protect my stuff out of fear. It’s worth something to me. I don’t eat healthy out of fear, but because I’m worth something. I care about my parents, not out of fear they might die, but because I value their life. You have it the wrong way buddy.
You somehow made it about smartphones and illiterate elderly people. I never said “everyone needs to do it” I said it’s the way to go, and then showed ways how even illiterate and elderly people could do it, if it would be important to them. By using standard ways of using services. Like people do. And that I did only because you said that they couldn’t.
What is your problem with generalizing? Underprivileged people? What? It’s about people who care. And they find a way. Are you aware that all of that stuff can be run on a $25 minicomputer?
You obviously don’t care, but rather enjoy misquoting people, so it fits your agenda. And then going the narcissistic route and belittling them.
You don’t care. Fine. Many people do, from all areas of life. And people manage, because they care. You have a disabling attitude and act like a victim. Fine. Be that way. Live in fear of the actual world. I hope it won’t bite you in the ass.
And I really don’t know why I should phrase my posts so that a media addicted person is interested in them. I don’t care what you do. At all. Value your possessions, don’t value them.
Self-hosted private data run on FOSS is the way to go. Period. Things one buys and own should be theirs to keep.
Your claim: “root server, self-hosted everything and FOSS. If you can’t do your things with that, it ain’t worth doing anyway.”
Do you really think I need to “reason” why this is utter nonsense? Fine, here you go. My elderly technically barely-literate father and mother are supposed to self-host their email servers so as not to just use Gmail? Old people who don’t speak English and use Netflix or HBO or whatever to stream movies and TV series are supposed to self host Jellyfin and torrent their stuff? They’re supposed to use OpenStreetMap to find directions around the city instead of Google Maps, because “privacy”?
Maybe my grandparents should run GrapheneOS.
Or perhaps you’re suggesting that, since they can’t root server and self-host FOSS stuff instead of using off-the-shelf products, they should just not watch anything other than cable TV, and write letters by hand and post them. And if they need to go somewhere that they don’t know the way to, they should just ask for directions on the street (and hope the person they’re asking doesn’t just pull up Google Maps, since then they’d be using it by proxy!), oldschool style.
This is not viable, feasible, or possible. “Millions and millions are doing it” tells me you have little understanding of the scale at which modern technology is used. There are an estimated 7 billion smartphones in the world. Almost 2 billion gmail accounts. So the fact that “millions” are using self-hosted FOSS alternatives means… basically nothing.
Home cooking has been a staple human activity for millennia. It is widespread, it’s a skill passed on from one generation to the next, slowly ingrained in people. And even then, the majority of people are absolutely trash at cooking, can barely cobble together one or two recipes, buy ready-made meals, have others cook for them, order out or go to restaurants. Your “root server, self-hosted everything and FOSS. If you can’t do your things with that, it ain’t worth doing anyway.” could be “buy your own ingredients and home-cook every meal you eat. If you can’t do your things with that, eating ain’t worth it for you” and it would still have been utterly ridiculous despite billions more people in the world having the ability to do it.
You need to accept that self hosting and FOSS is for a fringe part of the population and suggesting it as the solution to the issues that currently exist with services like Steam or Google or Netflix is counter-productive. Maybe many generations from now it will be possible to have a sizeable amount of people using technology that way, but now ain’t it.
And by the way, I’ve been on the Internet since like 1998, I went through Napsters and DC++ and I torrented tons and tons of things for years and years. But even for me, the idea of doing what you suggest is absolutely exhausting and not something I really want to find the time to engage in. “It is just a matter of lifestyle and how much one values their own authority over things.”, you say, and you’re right. That’s a much more reasonable stance than your original comment. The truth is I don’t care too much about the authority I have over “my media” or “my data”.
Fine. Be that guy.
Setting up that complicated FOSS stuff took me six hours, ten years ago. With another hour every six months to maintain, if at all, as most things update themselves. And you know what? My parents can use them too, as they are all set up to be multi-user by default.
You just don’t care. Why argue about it then, trying to make others not care, spreading your ignorance. Even calling me a fearmonger. You being afraid is not on me. It’s your own ignorance.
Perhaps, just perhaps, you should have taken a minute to learn about the tech you are using. Torrented for years, eh? And now you are the literal jock putting down nerds, because they did learn? And we nerds spent two decades at making it all easy. Installing your own cloud on a root server takes five clicks and ten minutes for heaven’s sake. Installing the root server itself is done in a matter of two hours. They even come hardened out of the box.
I can’t argue with ignorance. I’ve never talked about replacing each and every technology with FOSS. Just the sensible ones, the ones with money attached. With privacy attached.
And that is both cheap, and easy to do. And your parents could just hire someone. You know, like hiring a carpenter, doctor, gardener. Have you heard of businesses? You don’t have to spend ten minutes on it.
FOSS is being used by a fringe part of the population. Why change that, you don’t care. Why should anyone think differently?
You are strawmanning, adding new topics at will too. I can’t write a book here.
Feel free to take it as a win. I wonder though, why are you here, and not on reddit? Oh. Right. I would guess: because of your freedom and privacy, right? Did you get banned there? Your comments deleted? So you do care. Just not enough? Just a tiny portion of people use lemmy, after all.
Where to draw the line? Damn double standards, eh? .
You accuse me of being afraid. Of what exactly? You’re the one afraid Gaben is going to pull the plug on Steam and other stuff like this. I’m not. You’re the one saying everything needs to be self-hosted FOSS. I don’t care if it’s not.
I don’t want to take anything as a win, but I realize now that you are so divorced from the reality in which we live that there’s no point continuing to debate. 80-year olds who can barely afford food should… hire businesses to root their phones and install self-hosted mail servers for them? That may work in some highly privileged places in the world, but do you have any idea what conditions the vast majority of humans on this planet live in? What their priorities are?
You say you “never talked about replacing each and every technology with FOSS.” but that’s exactly what you said in your first post and that’s what irritates me and what I take issue with. If your stance would have been “I like to self-host stuff for myself and family and use FOSS. You should look into it, it’s cool and not that hard”, I’d have upvoted you and not batted an eye. But you came in here with the sweeping generalisation that if you can’t root, self-hosted FOSS something “it ain’t worth doing”.
I never called anyone a nerd and I’m not sure why you feel like that’s the case.
And not that it should matter, but I’m not on reddit anymore since they killed RIF and I a) didn’t like their stance with regards to third party apps and b) can’t stand the official mobile app. Not really because of my privacy, and no I didn’t get banned.
Anyway, I accidentally came across another one of your posts on a different topic on here, and now I understand. I’m sorry for having engaged you at all and please accept my sympathies.
Have you heard about context? The post and my reply were about purchases and online data. And naturally, “everything FOSS” is about stuff you can run on said root-server. Which would be email and cloud-storage. Bought music and videos. Stuff of value.
It was also about people who care. I don’t protect my stuff out of fear. It’s worth something to me. I don’t eat healthy out of fear, but because I’m worth something. I care about my parents, not out of fear they might die, but because I value their life. You have it the wrong way buddy.
You somehow made it about smartphones and illiterate elderly people. I never said “everyone needs to do it” I said it’s the way to go, and then showed ways how even illiterate and elderly people could do it, if it would be important to them. By using standard ways of using services. Like people do. And that I did only because you said that they couldn’t.
What is your problem with generalizing? Underprivileged people? What? It’s about people who care. And they find a way. Are you aware that all of that stuff can be run on a $25 minicomputer?
You obviously don’t care, but rather enjoy misquoting people, so it fits your agenda. And then going the narcissistic route and belittling them.
You don’t care. Fine. Many people do, from all areas of life. And people manage, because they care. You have a disabling attitude and act like a victim. Fine. Be that way. Live in fear of the actual world. I hope it won’t bite you in the ass.
And I really don’t know why I should phrase my posts so that a media addicted person is interested in them. I don’t care what you do. At all. Value your possessions, don’t value them.
Self-hosted private data run on FOSS is the way to go. Period. Things one buys and own should be theirs to keep.