A secret third option where we use the leverage we have, withholding our votes, to pressure the administration and campaign to move its position from “Don’t like it, but we gotta do genocide 🤷🏼♂️” to “Ok we will stop giving the genociders weapons and pressure them to withdraw from Palestine”.
Y’know… Maybe before we lose that leverage and they inevitably take our votes for granted because we spent all our energy justifying why voting for the blue genociders was better than voting for the more enthusiastic red genociders.
There is no secret third option. One of the two will win. You will, in fact, lose your leverage when Mr. Dictator Day One replaces the entire federal staff with Federalist Society cronies and the guys urging to deport protestors have control over the House and Senate.
Of course, you love all the genocide and want that to go faster in Gaza, faster in Ukraine, faster domestically.
I admit my comment might not have been the clearest but I do feel like you’re talking past my point.
To reiterate: If you decide to ‘vote blue no matter who’ you are granting the DNC your vote, which at the moment is one of the few points of leverage you have to get them to change policy positions, for nothing. But I admit, maybe getting them to change policy positions isn’t your aim. I don’t know for sure.
It is my aim, and the aim of the uncommitted movement and Palestinian liberation groups in the country as a whole. Using that leverage, by telling the DNC we will not simply grant them our vote unless they put forward policy positions which we favor, is good politics. It has little to do with whether Trump wants to do away with elections and declare himself God Emperor. You can still vote for the democrats come November, but refusing to use said leverage and/or running cover for the DNC by asking that criticisms are withheld until after the election is at best poor strategy or shows that you don’t care about the policy changing.
Your comment was clear. You are on a high horse and privileged enough that you don’t think another Donald admin will harm you. You want to smugly tell everyone who doesn’t share your exact viewpoint that they support genocide.
You can tell the Dems whatever you want, uncommitted, fine, I don’t give a shit. I hope it works, what is happening over there is despicable.
However, when it comes down to it, you either are opposed to increasing genocide and will vote against Donald in November. Or you are a genocide lover and will assist him taking over, filling every federal position with a crony, and ending even FPTP as a method for change.
@barsquid That sums up my feeling about this kind of rightwing talking point too. It almost never comes from an honest place. So I learned from reddit, and just mute the shills. To the tune of AC/DC…
‘rightwing talking point’ yeah cause the right winger is me calling for an arms embargo and an end to the occupation of Palestine by Israel - famed left-wing progressive country… get real
Are you here to discuss the topic, then? Or just to leave snarky one-liners? Cause all you’ve done so far is 1) implied I’m a rightwinger and 2) told me im having a pissing match while discussing genocide. You’ve not… replied to any points I’ve made nor seemingly even considered them. I’m not here to pretend I can change your mind, but you’re certainly not contributing much to the topic at hand
Every single administration - republican and democrat - this imperialist, neocolonial, warmongering country has had for my entire life has harmed me or people I love in some way shape or form, please do not assume what privileges I may or may not hold. It’s fine if you disagree with me, but don’t pretend to know me.
I’ve only ever voted dem, and seeing how this country is going I will probably be forced to continue to do so. But dear god stop letting the DNC move further and further right every 4 years and get away with it by just echoing ‘the other guy is worse’ calls. It doesn’t make you look like you actually have principles it makes it seem like you treat elections like team sports.
Policy is what matters, policy can be changed, and your vote is one cudgel you can use to get policy change made BEFORE the election. History has shown the Democrats have not gotten pushed towards better positions after being elected, no matter how much people in 2020 screamed to “push biden left” once he got in office. I mean FFS democrats are now cheering on asylum bans and a worsening of the treatment of immigrants at the border, and somehow immigrants like me are supposed to still vote for them with a smile on my face?
I really dislike how liberals handle criticism from the left. It’s too often some vague call for ‘pragmatism’ or ‘just shut up and vote blue or you want the other guy to win’. Or ‘damn you’re criticizing the dems? must be a russian bot or a secret trumpist’. Just… christ just at least admit the choices in front of us every election are ASS.
“It’s fine if you disagree with me, but don’t pretend to know me.” If you took your own advice instead of smugly telling people what they support or not then we wouldn’t be having an argument at all.
Untrue. We both still disagree on whether threatening to withhold our votes from the democrats in order to get policy change is a strategy worth employing, no? Isn’t that the central point I’ve been making and you’ve been talking past this whole time? We’d still have an argument because you think my position is privileged and you think I “love all the genocide and want that to go faster in Gaza”, no?
You got me tho. I had assumed your comment was left in good faith and that we actually had some fundamental disagreement worth exploring. I started typing away thinking this was going to be productive. I’m a dumbass for that.
Oddly enough now we’ve both been assholes to each other, you’re actually posting in good faith and beyond the “you love genocide but I am pure” shit. Did you actually want to discuss opinions on the efficacy of declaring uncommitted instead of calling everyone who disagrees with you genocidal? That was unclear. Wishing you better luck next conversation.
A secret third option where we use the leverage we have, withholding our votes, to pressure the administration and campaign to move its position from “Don’t like it, but we gotta do genocide 🤷🏼♂️” to “Ok we will stop giving the genociders weapons and pressure them to withdraw from Palestine”.
Y’know… Maybe before we lose that leverage and they inevitably take our votes for granted because we spent all our energy justifying why voting for the blue genociders was better than voting for the more enthusiastic red genociders.
There is no secret third option. One of the two will win. You will, in fact, lose your leverage when Mr. Dictator Day One replaces the entire federal staff with Federalist Society cronies and the guys urging to deport protestors have control over the House and Senate.
Of course, you love all the genocide and want that to go faster in Gaza, faster in Ukraine, faster domestically.
I admit my comment might not have been the clearest but I do feel like you’re talking past my point.
To reiterate: If you decide to ‘vote blue no matter who’ you are granting the DNC your vote, which at the moment is one of the few points of leverage you have to get them to change policy positions, for nothing. But I admit, maybe getting them to change policy positions isn’t your aim. I don’t know for sure.
It is my aim, and the aim of the uncommitted movement and Palestinian liberation groups in the country as a whole. Using that leverage, by telling the DNC we will not simply grant them our vote unless they put forward policy positions which we favor, is good politics. It has little to do with whether Trump wants to do away with elections and declare himself God Emperor. You can still vote for the democrats come November, but refusing to use said leverage and/or running cover for the DNC by asking that criticisms are withheld until after the election is at best poor strategy or shows that you don’t care about the policy changing.
Your comment was clear. You are on a high horse and privileged enough that you don’t think another Donald admin will harm you. You want to smugly tell everyone who doesn’t share your exact viewpoint that they support genocide.
You can tell the Dems whatever you want, uncommitted, fine, I don’t give a shit. I hope it works, what is happening over there is despicable.
However, when it comes down to it, you either are opposed to increasing genocide and will vote against Donald in November. Or you are a genocide lover and will assist him taking over, filling every federal position with a crony, and ending even FPTP as a method for change.
@barsquid That sums up my feeling about this kind of rightwing talking point too. It almost never comes from an honest place. So I learned from reddit, and just mute the shills. To the tune of AC/DC…
‘rightwing talking point’ yeah cause the right winger is me calling for an arms embargo and an end to the occupation of Palestine by Israel - famed left-wing progressive country… get real
@Kagu I’m not here for reddit style pissing matches. Not sorry.
Are you here to discuss the topic, then? Or just to leave snarky one-liners? Cause all you’ve done so far is 1) implied I’m a rightwinger and 2) told me im having a pissing match while discussing genocide. You’ve not… replied to any points I’ve made nor seemingly even considered them. I’m not here to pretend I can change your mind, but you’re certainly not contributing much to the topic at hand
Every single administration - republican and democrat - this imperialist, neocolonial, warmongering country has had for my entire life has harmed me or people I love in some way shape or form, please do not assume what privileges I may or may not hold. It’s fine if you disagree with me, but don’t pretend to know me.
I’ve only ever voted dem, and seeing how this country is going I will probably be forced to continue to do so. But dear god stop letting the DNC move further and further right every 4 years and get away with it by just echoing ‘the other guy is worse’ calls. It doesn’t make you look like you actually have principles it makes it seem like you treat elections like team sports.
Policy is what matters, policy can be changed, and your vote is one cudgel you can use to get policy change made BEFORE the election. History has shown the Democrats have not gotten pushed towards better positions after being elected, no matter how much people in 2020 screamed to “push biden left” once he got in office. I mean FFS democrats are now cheering on asylum bans and a worsening of the treatment of immigrants at the border, and somehow immigrants like me are supposed to still vote for them with a smile on my face?
I really dislike how liberals handle criticism from the left. It’s too often some vague call for ‘pragmatism’ or ‘just shut up and vote blue or you want the other guy to win’. Or ‘damn you’re criticizing the dems? must be a russian bot or a secret trumpist’. Just… christ just at least admit the choices in front of us every election are ASS.
“It’s fine if you disagree with me, but don’t pretend to know me.” If you took your own advice instead of smugly telling people what they support or not then we wouldn’t be having an argument at all.
Untrue. We both still disagree on whether threatening to withhold our votes from the democrats in order to get policy change is a strategy worth employing, no? Isn’t that the central point I’ve been making and you’ve been talking past this whole time? We’d still have an argument because you think my position is privileged and you think I “love all the genocide and want that to go faster in Gaza”, no?
You got me tho. I had assumed your comment was left in good faith and that we actually had some fundamental disagreement worth exploring. I started typing away thinking this was going to be productive. I’m a dumbass for that.
Oddly enough now we’ve both been assholes to each other, you’re actually posting in good faith and beyond the “you love genocide but I am pure” shit. Did you actually want to discuss opinions on the efficacy of declaring uncommitted instead of calling everyone who disagrees with you genocidal? That was unclear. Wishing you better luck next conversation.