Explain logic to me
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Hi. So the weirdest, most annoying argument I’ve had just happened. Some alt-righter’s logic was “Well, if I use this obscene word a lot, then i’m using it liberally, and if enough people hear it, then thAt’s PRoGREssive” Dafuq crack are you smoking bro? Using hate speech/profanities/obscenities is neither liberal or progressive. Am I wrong? Explain this warped logic to me? Chuds are quite illogical. Also, I’m a bit buzzed and I can make more sense than a right-wing chud.

@ancom
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You use lots of ableist language. Without that I would like your post better.

@a_Ha
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Ableist language is language that is …

...

offensive to people with disability. It can also refer to language that is derogatory, abusive or negative about disability. Ableism is the systemic exclusion and oppression of people with disability, often expressed and reinforced through language.

@sinewyshadow
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My apologies. I’ll try to change my post.

@snek_boi
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Using hate speech/profanities/obscenities is neither liberal or progressive. Am I wrong?

You’re not wrong. As to why, there are a couple of things going on, but at the very least he’s confusing different meanings of “liberally”.

“Liberally” can mean ‘accepting others, even if they’re very different to me’ and ‘a form of government in which there’s a democratic republic that coexists with capitalism’. It also is an adverb similar to ‘plentifully’ or ‘abundantly’.

Explain this dumbfuck’s logic to me?

So when he uses an “obscene word a lot”, he’s indeed “using it liberally”, but in the sense of ‘plenty’. He’s not magically jumping from ‘plenty’ to ‘accepting others’ or ‘a particular form of government’. Notice that ‘accepting others’ and the democratic bit in liberalism are many times what progressives strive for (although there are some progressives who would defend the capitalist part as well).

So his logic is straight up not valid.

Dafuq crack are you smoking bro?

Either he’s trolling you or he’s functionally illiterate. It’s also possible he’s literate (and IQ smart), but is so indoctrinated that invalid logic becomes magically valid from his perspective. Lastly, it’s possible he messed up (as humans so often do!). But based on my interpretation of what you two were up to, and my own experience on the internet, I think he’s trolling.

@sinewyshadow
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I think he was trying to justify himself using hate speech as contributing to a liberal or progressive cause. Making himself seem like a good person, I guess?

@gun
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That doesn’t sound like logic at all. It sounds like there wasn’t an argument made at all, just a belief statement. In that case, the best you can do is ask “why?” Or just leave the conversation. Or troll back.

@Liwott
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Or troll back.

Don’t. All you will do is legitimate trolling as a activist method

@sinewyshadow
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I told him that hate speech is neither liberal or progressive.

@marmulak
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Not sure what is meant by progressive, but using a word liberally is not “liberal” in the same sense as in “liberalism”. Some words have different meanings depending on context, but that doesn’t mean you can confuse the two.

@Shell
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The connotative meaning of words versus the denotative meaning of words is the contradiction which causes most of our misunderstandings.

@Whom
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My guess, aside from the strange word usage, is that they think using slurs casually takes their power away. It’s a pretty common belief…I guess people realize the obviously true fact that those words are bad not because of any natural law but actually because of social factors and then just conclude the problem is the people hurt by them. That leads them to put the burden of solving this problem on the targets of that language, since “they’re just words”. If you come at it from that angle, I can see how you’d land on the idea that the way to go is to do whatever you can to desensitize everyone to all words with power so everyone can see that they’re just words.

It should go without saying, but even if this is what they meant, it’s still absurd and incorrect. And while I’m sure some do land on it by following a similar line of thinking to what I just said, I’m confident even more land on it out of convenience: it lets them defend the shitty thing they wanted to do anyway.

@Liwott
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First, to be sure I understand, did you just copy the exact citation while adding only some capitalisation? Having the exact wording may help understanding what their logical point was supposed to be.

Let me add that playing with the capitalisation to make the person’s speech sound stupid make it seem like you are just looking for support from people who agree with you rather than actually understanding what they were trying to say.

Using hate speech/profanities/obscenities is neither liberal or progressive.

That depends on what one means by liberal and progressive. Maybe you are following the very american trend to call leftism in general “liberalism”, and your opponent isn’t.

Free speech is one of the most important individual freedoms. Putting individual freedoms above other considerations is the core of liberalism.

The right to slur can also be seen as progressive in the sense that it opposes a conservative puritanism.

@sinewyshadow
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I copied what I could from his message. “then I’m using the term liberally, that makes it liberal. And if more people are exposed the to the term, then it is making progress”

@Liwott
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“making progress” of course depends on what is the goal one wants to achieve. When unsure, you should definitely check with the other person what they mean by liberal or progress. That’s pretty much all I can say from this contextless citation.

@sinewyshadow
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I’d copy the message word for word, but there are profanities, and racial slurs in the message. I will try to copy/paste, though.

@a_Ha
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Chud or Chude is a term historically applied in the early East Slavic annals to several Baltic Finns in the area of what is now Estonia, Karelia and Northwestern Russia.
Wikipedia

@sinewyshadow
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But, everyone calls them chuds…

@a_Ha
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Today i learned, first time i see this, it must be far from my centres of interest.

@sinewyshadow
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The guy messaged me back, and said I hate african americans and gays, that’s why I am intolerant of his hate speech. Said I will never be as “liberal, progressive and inclusive as he is”, told me to get my “biases and prejudice in check” and also told me to “check my privilege”. Guy’s off the deep end.

Jedrax
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He’s trolling you. Don’t read too much into it. No point in having internet fights. Especially with dumb people who bring you down to their level where they have the high ground.

jhghjb (he/they)
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are you white?

@a_Ha
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i hope this should be irrelevant, i like it better if we discuss ideas instead of pointing finger at who are who … there might be a flaw in my approach ?

jhghjb (he/they)
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wrong

@a_Ha
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?

@sinewyshadow
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Yes, why?

jhghjb (he/they)
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yikes

@sinewyshadow
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I’m doing my damnedest to be anti-racist, because the world is hurting and needs positivity and kindness right now. We can’t all be yelling profanities, or slurs at people, when we should be building each other up, not tearing each other down. It breaks my fucking heart that the world is in the state it’s in.

jhghjb (he/they)
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educate yourself

@sinewyshadow
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I am. I’m reading books on anti-racism, and books by trans authors, black authors, etc.

jhghjb (he/they)
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even with good literature white people can’t learn, they really are a lost cause 😔

@sinewyshadow
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I think the problem is, people aren’t willing to understand a different viewpoint from their own, but if we understood what the other person’s been through, we’d be more open to understanding their viewpoint.

jhghjb (he/they)
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wrong

@sinewyshadow
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Why?

jhghjb (he/they)
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educate yourself

@southerntofu
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Are you suggesting only white people are racist and bigoted? I have no idea where you reside, but here in France, racism and bigotry is not just a white thing. It used to be more so a few decades back when there was a stronger revolutionary antiracist movement.

Also, i didn’t downvote because i agree with your sentiment that whiteness is hard to dismantle, but i should still point out that your comment is an essentialist bigoted argument. Sure it’s aimed at white people so it’s not racist: anti-white resentment is a thing, but there is no structural racism against white people.

However, essentialist constructs is precisely what we’re trying to dismantle in the cis-hetero patriarchal, white-supremacist capitalist society. I agree to struggle by any means necessary, but producing new identity boxes to stuff people in by force is not struggling against oppression, it’s in fact very much reinforcing oppression.

We need more radical politics. Let’s go to the roots of oppression. Goodthinking liberal “who’s more oppressed” game of identity politics is not intersectionality, as intersectionality is precisely about recognizing that oppression is neither a binary nor a linear measure, but rather an intricate chaos of interfering factors.

Intersectionality is acknowledging that whatever oppresses you and me right now, only by struggling together we can dismantle all systems of domination. Or put another way:

if you have come here to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together. (Lilla Watson)

Please try to assume good faith from the original poster next time. It’s ok to ask tough questions, but don’t automatically assume bad faith from someone asking questions themself.

Greetings from a fellow (white) enby!

QuentinCallaghan
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You can’t expect logic a guy who gets the meaning of “liberally” wrong.

@sinewyshadow
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Lol, I know what the word liberally means, in this guy’s mind, he thought he was contributing to the liberal/progressive agenda by spewing his hateful rhetoric.

@a_Ha
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Am I wrong ?

You are right, + this alt right might be a troll.

@Jojonintendo
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deleted by creator

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