- cross-posted to:
- palestine
- cross-posted to:
- palestine
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All she has to do is tell Benny to fuck off and not give him weapons. Thats it. Nobody is asking for a miracle, everyone is demanding to stop enabling and abetting.
They are required by law passed in 2008 to ensure Israel has a “Qualitative Military Advantage” over the area. They can’t just stop giving weapons completely as it is literally illegal.
They would have to show that Israel has more than enough to defend themselves from all likely attackers before they could prevent it, and if they do guess what: they don’t need weapons to keep on keepin on.
They can’t just stop giving weapons completely as it is literally illegal.
What about the Leahy laws? Isn’t it illegal to continue?
No, those laws don’t count because those in power are either scared to stop or don’t want to because they support the genocide.
Functionally, there is no difference between cowardice and enthusiastic complicity. And the enablers of genocide should not get the benefit of the doubt.
Thanks! That’s interesting. So because they are technically sales it’s under the commercial system, but it sounds like the Biden era policy has rules about this type of thing for those too. And also, aren’t these “sales” actually coming from US aid packages anyway?
Really seems like the rules could be applied consistently to justify stopping supporting this:
Well, the State Department has said publicly that the same policy applies to Israel as apply to every other country. In practice, Israel gets special treatment. In practice, arms transfers that, given similar conduct by any other country would not be allowed, are being allowed for Israel. You may recall the Biden administration suspended items that could be used in offensive air-to-ground operations for Saudi Arabia because they were causing civilian casualties. Those civilian casualties are nowhere near the civilian casualties that Israeli air-to-ground operations have caused so far. Yet unconditional transfers of air-to-ground munitions continue.
Yup. The law is firm and sacrosanct and immovable when it requires us to support genocide, but less substantial than air when it requires us to withhold support and we don’t wanna.
Doubtably unless it’s about only interceptor missiles.
There’s a good reason the Biden administration is running more ridiculous press briefings than the CCP and KGB right now. After 10 months of Genocide they are still “investigating” to find if israel ever committed a war crime.
After 10 months of Genocide they are still “investigating” to find if israel ever committed a war crime.
I mean, they’ve allegedly been investigating Trump for almost 4 years now.
Could one argue that since Israel pretty clearly possesses nuclear weapons even if they wont directly admit to it, that they should be able to deter attacks that actually stand a chance at threatening the existence of the country due to the threat of those weapons, and therefore already have the required advantage without additional US assistance?
You’re right. No more weapons to Israel. Guess they’ll just have to use their nukes then.
I really wish people would take a moment and really consider what they are suggesting first.
I’m not suggesting they actually use those nukes. I’m suggesting that Iran or such will not actually launch an attack strong enough to credibly threaten to destroy Isreal, because it would be suicide to do so. The use of having nuclear weapons is that if you have them, it never makes sense to push you into condition where you feel you have to use them. Using them offensively in Gaza or the like would not be in Isreals interest for a number of reasons.
If someone’s suggestion sounds so obviously flawed that you feel the need to say that, perhaps you should take a moment and consider if they’re really implying what you think they are.
By literally justifying the removal of Israel’s ability to defend themselves with conventional means because they have nukes the obvious conclusion is you expect nukes to be the means to defend oneself. Considering Israel is commonly believed to have obtained Nukes in '66-67, and the numerous wars that have been fought since then, the belief that ‘the possession of nukes alone is a sufficient deterrent’ is unreasonable.
Have any of those wars come close to actually threatening the state of Israel itself, rather than just their control over territories they’d occupied from someone else? In any case, you’re also making a false assumption that ending US military aid to Israel leaves it conventionally defenseless, or that US weapons have to be stopped from going there in perpetuity. Israel has both a domestic arms industry and other countries it could acquire weapons from, it would just be at increased difficulty and expense. Further, when the objection to sending US arms there is that they are using them to commit genocide, that objection would naturally end should Israel cease those operations.
The point is not “Israel should have nothing left but the nukes, because they can just use those”, but rather “Israel’s nukes mean that a full scale invasion of the country is not likely, so we have room to revoke our current military assistance in order to pressure them to behave better, without much risk of destroying them in the meantime by doing so.”
The fact that Israel is wasting ordinance blowing up civilians and brazenly striking into other countries like Iran makes me think they are rather confident in their military capabilities and so we should let them manage with the resources they have.
They are also required by the Leahy law to cut off all military aid to any human rights abusers. The State Department confirmed there were war crimes that took place (a number posted as videos by soldiers), but the Secretary of State overrode his own department to illegally give the aid anyway.
All Harris has to do is say she will obey the laws no matter what her feelings may be on the topic. She’s a prosecutor and knows this.
Is that a self imposed law? Who would even litigate it? Israel can go fuck themselves.
I feel like cutting them off and pointing out that a qualitative military advantage doesn’t give a nation some magical free pass for genocide isn’t particularly complex. Beyond that, since when does the US government let legalities stop them from doing what they want?
There is a law that makes everything illegal and another law that makes everything legal. It’s purely up to the authoritarian regime masters, aka district attorneys and congress, to decide to do anything or not.
She cannot do that unfortunately. She’s vice president in a government that explicitly doesn’t do that, and she can’t openly deviate while running.
Why not? What’s Biden gonna do? Fire her?
From a foreign policy perspective it’s extremely undesirable to have the President and VP provide different messages. Who should (foreign) diplomats listen to? Who should be send to peace negotiations if different members of the cabinet have different positions? I don’t think something like that has ever happened.
From a foreign policy perspective it’s extremely undesirable to have the President and VP provide different messages.
Harris is not the Secretary of State. This isn’t the GWB administration where the VP is calling the shots,either. Harris wields no power regarding foreign policy. There is no good reason for her to stick with Biden’s policy on this.
There’s certainly excuses and bad reasons, though.
Sadly didn’t stop Biden doing exactly that when he was VP and Obama/Hillary were trying to calm down bibi
Yes, she can, or already has won them back. “Uncommitted” was primarily about sending a message, and it was effective at doing that. I would be surprised if the majority of them planned on not voting for Biden, and now Harris, in the general.
They’re still saying they might vote uncommitted. They want Kamala to stop sending arms to Israel but so far she has refused.
Nobody can, so nobody should care.
Biden≠Harris, never has been.
If they want to project guilt onto people without considering the equal yet opposite outcome their opinions are moot.
Not being able to accept that two things can be wrong at once and disregarding the potential possibilities seem to be VERY popular this election year LOL.
You get she’s still the Vice President of the Biden Administration right?
The Uncommitted Movement, anti-genocide protestors, want a change in the Administration from the unconditional military support supplying a genocide, to a conditional support that forces Israel to abide by International Laws and not commit genocide.
Harris has the opportunity to pivot on Gaza and make it a partisan issue. That’s a major way to win some critical swing states. It’s good policy and good politics.
Removed by mod
Removed, civility.
Given the fact that I saw “Sry don’t give a fuck about Gaza while our own democracy is at risk. Fighting progress for perfection is how you end up dead.” was a highly upvoted comment on a Gaza post, it’s safe to assume that the 90% “current thing” leftists have do not care anymore
You seem to confuse Liberals with Leftists. Said Liberals were already planning to vote for Biden despite the Genocide.
They were planning to vote for Biden because of the genocide.
Oh. You’re one of the people urging an admin switch to “Israel should finish the job” Donald. “Surely we will see an immediate ceasefire enforced on Israel by the party telling us to deport protesters to Gaza and nuke the area.”
Oh. You’re one of the people urging an admin switch to “Israel should finish the job” Donald
I am not. I get that you can’t imagine anyone opposing genocide since it’s all you know.
You love genocide. You want it more and faster in Israel and more and faster in Ukraine. That’s why you are constantly promoting the MAGA agenda of throwing votes in the trash. Every thread.
You love genocide. You want it more and faster in Israel and more and faster in Ukraine.
I do not. You just pretend any opposition to the genocide you support is Trump support.
I understand that voting exactly how the Repubs want you to is Trump support. You either do not understand, or you love the extra genocide and the human rights abuses the Repubs commit.
Based on everyone explaining it to you in every thread, I have to assume you want the more genocide and for women to be unwilling incubators.
