Have clearly never owned a Hyundai. My mom had a cheapo Hyundai Accent that she drove until it hit 300k miles. She only upgraded because she got tired of manual transmission, hand crank windows, and no power locks.
It’s not even just cheapo stuff anymore. They’ve really stepped up their game in the last several years, with ICE and a good range of EVs. I know a few people that have Hyundai EVs, and they all love them.
Their Genesis badge is also legit luxury. I would say they might be the best value in luxury cars right now because they can’t yet command the price the more established brands can.
These aren’t the shitty tin cans from when I was younger. If you’re looking for a new car don’t dismiss KIA/Hyundai/Genesis without checking them out.
I know folks who have, I owned a Kia that shares much engineering with Hyundai.
Yes, people do have fine experiences but the past decade has not been kind to Hyundai/Kia owners. They couldn’t build a decent GDI 4-cylinder (Theta 2), their 3.3L likes to strip headbolts (and more) and pile on the whole anti-theft cost-cutting that even Mitsubishi and Nissan didn’t (and doesn’t) do.
My roommate’s Accent chewed through it’s oil unexpectedly fast and seized. My parents 2.4L Sonata could go at any time (little to no warning), when they got free oil changes the dealer would intentionally overfill it to compensate. My sister’s Elantra is prone to piston slap. And they’re all immobilizer-less. Luckily there’s lawsuits that might help but it’s a risk for those who depend on their vehicle.
They certainly look slick, have more features for your dollar and are quite comfy inside but there’s ALWAYS some sneaky engineering flaw that rears it’s head sooner or later.
If you take my third-gen Sorento, it was a fine car. Comfortable, well-packaged, designed interior, good controls and materials choice. Transmission took everything I threw at it, plenty of space.
Shame that I had to worry about sudden knocking, seizing (2.4L, 2.0T) or headbolt failure (if I had the V6) washer fluid tank leaks (also afflicts it’s Hyundai cousin), BCM failure messing with the gear lever, trailer wiring electrical short/fire (not applicable as my tow harness was aftermarket), and a well-performing AWD system that fails around six digit mileage and can’t be maintained by the end user. (sealed)
And that’s if it wasn’t stolen or vandalized first #kiaboyz - either way would leave me out of a car waiting for parts for weeks to months. (If it was totaled, that would’ve been the best course of action)
I went looking for what a similar AWD component failure cost on similar age Crosstreks and Highlanders but it was practically unheard of online.
You can look at their EVs too. You think going electric solves problems? Nope. They underspecced some charging port so the Ioniq 5 can’t charge as fast after heat concerns. And then the ICCU leaks. Their first-gen Ioniq/Niro/Soul EVs have shit-designed reduction gearboxes that dump metal into the oil and need oil changes while the Bolt doesn’t for maybe 150k miles.
Yes, you can find other cars with fatal flaws but it’s business as usual in Hyundai and Kia land. They play whack-a-mole with problems (their new engines SEEM better, they added immobilizers standard) but customers are ultimately the ones left holding the bag when the latest dumb penny-pinching makes itself apparent.
(oh yea and poor resale, high insurance too dependent on vehicle trim and location. They are the only makes where I recommend 3000 mile oil changes)
Yes. They have some flaws. I’m willing to admit that but to say they’re shitty when they have fewer problems than pretty much any American built vehicle is being disingenuous. Saying one experience doesn’t make a rule and then following that up with anecdotal evidence from a couple people you know as proof is also disingenuous. I’m not saying they make the best vehicles on the road. I’d probably give that notch to Toyota. My point isn’t to say that they’re the best manufacturer out there but to call them shitty isn’t being honest. They have far fewer problems than their American made counterparts. Toyota and Honda are going to be better options but to say Hyundai are shitty is not accurate.
What do you mean disingenuous, I have a anecdotal evidence sample size 400% larger! Clearly it’s superior! (kidding)
Of course, the anecdata clearly isn’t useful here but it’s easy to bust out and point to as a counter - we’re not seeing remotely near the amount of bellyaching for Honda 3.5’s, Ford 1.0’s, etc. The 300k Accent is probably a pre-10’s model.
If you pop on over to kia-forums, hyundai-forums, piloteers, whatever forums and CarComplaints you’ll see a trend. The '16 Sorento has the same sizable number of engine complaints as the '16 CR-V - except the CR-V is for some vibration at idle while the Sorento is outright failure. And the '16 RAV4 outsold both and has a small fraction of complaints.
Of course people get lucky like some 235k mile '11 or '12 Sonata on hyundai-forums but I’m trying to paint the picture of a pair of companies that have repeatedly made poor, owner-unfriendly engineering decisions to save a buck are not a company people should reward with their business.
People should not be giving them any benefit of doubt to them nor pointing to someone doing worse as an excuse. (People - me included until a couple years ago - have been saying “they were not good before but they’re fine NOW!” for practically 15 years.)
It’s not that they don’t make the best vehicles, my claim is that they are below par.
Yes, American makes can have lower lows but it varies. Sometimes a bad engine here, a quirk there but taking the similar age GMC Acadia (similar in size to the Sorento) - it doesn’t seem to have the flaws the Sorento does. You’ll see CarComplaints say transmission issues but that is a “shift-to-park” message caused by a defective switch - easier to remedy than say, an engine seizing, headgasket blowing or the car just being stolen and joyridden.
TL;DR - They have a pervasive pattern of making poor engineering decisions that tops the Japanese and American makes. American makes aren’t that far behind but I don’t think I’ve seen such a widespread trend from them. EcoBoosts, even the sketchier ones aren’t dropping like flies. GM hasn’t gone in on the dual-clutch trend.
They have plenty of flashes of brilliance but it sucks when they have only recently demonstrated a willingness or capability to build an EV reduction gearbox that doesn’t foul it’s oil immediately. And having to learn to not under-size ABS wiring (fire).
JD Power a world renowned Advertising group. It’s research paid for by the company wishing to promote itself. It’s fake yelp for Auto Makers. Total biased crap.
Okay how about Consumer Reports (an independent member-funded nonprofit), who put Kia/Hyundai at 10/11, admittedly showing Genesis much lower in the pack (18). Kia/Hyundai still beat out every American manufacturer on the list (not that its an overwhelmingly high bar).
They’re definitely not perfect, but more middle of the road than older stigmas might have people believe.
Yeah, to call them shitty is disingenuous. They’re a solid brand at an affordable price which makes them pretty darn good for most Americans. And they still refused to actually point to any actual data about them being a bad brand. Just said JD Power is bad.
Agreed, and I’ll add, as an EV owner, none of the brands above them have anything resembling a respectable EV lineup, except maybe BMW, but that’s being generous. Toyota, Honda, and their subsidiaries make great cars, but they’ve dragged their feet more than anyone on the EV market.
As far as I’m concerned, if you’re looking at this from an EV buyer’s perspective, KIA/Hyundai top the list (which is reflected in CR’s EV ratings, giving them the top spot for the last few years)
Have clearly never owned a Hyundai. My mom had a cheapo Hyundai Accent that she drove until it hit 300k miles. She only upgraded because she got tired of manual transmission, hand crank windows, and no power locks.
It’s not even just cheapo stuff anymore. They’ve really stepped up their game in the last several years, with ICE and a good range of EVs. I know a few people that have Hyundai EVs, and they all love them.
Their Genesis badge is also legit luxury. I would say they might be the best value in luxury cars right now because they can’t yet command the price the more established brands can.
These aren’t the shitty tin cans from when I was younger. If you’re looking for a new car don’t dismiss KIA/Hyundai/Genesis without checking them out.
I know folks who have, I owned a Kia that shares much engineering with Hyundai.
Yes, people do have fine experiences but the past decade has not been kind to Hyundai/Kia owners. They couldn’t build a decent GDI 4-cylinder (Theta 2), their 3.3L likes to strip headbolts (and more) and pile on the whole anti-theft cost-cutting that even Mitsubishi and Nissan didn’t (and doesn’t) do.
My roommate’s Accent chewed through it’s oil unexpectedly fast and seized. My parents 2.4L Sonata could go at any time (little to no warning), when they got free oil changes the dealer would intentionally overfill it to compensate. My sister’s Elantra is prone to piston slap. And they’re all immobilizer-less. Luckily there’s lawsuits that might help but it’s a risk for those who depend on their vehicle.
They certainly look slick, have more features for your dollar and are quite comfy inside but there’s ALWAYS some sneaky engineering flaw that rears it’s head sooner or later.
If you take my third-gen Sorento, it was a fine car. Comfortable, well-packaged, designed interior, good controls and materials choice. Transmission took everything I threw at it, plenty of space.
Shame that I had to worry about sudden knocking, seizing (2.4L, 2.0T) or headbolt failure (if I had the V6) washer fluid tank leaks (also afflicts it’s Hyundai cousin), BCM failure messing with the gear lever, trailer wiring electrical short/fire (not applicable as my tow harness was aftermarket), and a well-performing AWD system that fails around six digit mileage and can’t be maintained by the end user. (sealed)
And that’s if it wasn’t stolen or vandalized first #kiaboyz - either way would leave me out of a car waiting for parts for weeks to months. (If it was totaled, that would’ve been the best course of action)
I went looking for what a similar AWD component failure cost on similar age Crosstreks and Highlanders but it was practically unheard of online.
You can look at their EVs too. You think going electric solves problems? Nope. They underspecced some charging port so the Ioniq 5 can’t charge as fast after heat concerns. And then the ICCU leaks. Their first-gen Ioniq/Niro/Soul EVs have shit-designed reduction gearboxes that dump metal into the oil and need oil changes while the Bolt doesn’t for maybe 150k miles.
Yes, you can find other cars with fatal flaws but it’s business as usual in Hyundai and Kia land. They play whack-a-mole with problems (their new engines SEEM better, they added immobilizers standard) but customers are ultimately the ones left holding the bag when the latest dumb penny-pinching makes itself apparent.
(oh yea and poor resale, high insurance too dependent on vehicle trim and location. They are the only makes where I recommend 3000 mile oil changes)
Yes. They have some flaws. I’m willing to admit that but to say they’re shitty when they have fewer problems than pretty much any American built vehicle is being disingenuous. Saying one experience doesn’t make a rule and then following that up with anecdotal evidence from a couple people you know as proof is also disingenuous. I’m not saying they make the best vehicles on the road. I’d probably give that notch to Toyota. My point isn’t to say that they’re the best manufacturer out there but to call them shitty isn’t being honest. They have far fewer problems than their American made counterparts. Toyota and Honda are going to be better options but to say Hyundai are shitty is not accurate.
What do you mean disingenuous, I have a anecdotal evidence sample size 400% larger! Clearly it’s superior! (kidding)
Of course, the anecdata clearly isn’t useful here but it’s easy to bust out and point to as a counter - we’re not seeing remotely near the amount of bellyaching for Honda 3.5’s, Ford 1.0’s, etc. The 300k Accent is probably a pre-10’s model.
If you pop on over to kia-forums, hyundai-forums, piloteers, whatever forums and CarComplaints you’ll see a trend. The '16 Sorento has the same sizable number of engine complaints as the '16 CR-V - except the CR-V is for some vibration at idle while the Sorento is outright failure. And the '16 RAV4 outsold both and has a small fraction of complaints.
Of course people get lucky like some 235k mile '11 or '12 Sonata on hyundai-forums but I’m trying to paint the picture of a pair of companies that have repeatedly made poor, owner-unfriendly engineering decisions to save a buck are not a company people should reward with their business.
People should not be giving them any benefit of doubt to them nor pointing to someone doing worse as an excuse. (People - me included until a couple years ago - have been saying “they were not good before but they’re fine NOW!” for practically 15 years.)
It’s not that they don’t make the best vehicles, my claim is that they are below par.
Yes, American makes can have lower lows but it varies. Sometimes a bad engine here, a quirk there but taking the similar age GMC Acadia (similar in size to the Sorento) - it doesn’t seem to have the flaws the Sorento does. You’ll see CarComplaints say transmission issues but that is a “shift-to-park” message caused by a defective switch - easier to remedy than say, an engine seizing, headgasket blowing or the car just being stolen and joyridden.
TL;DR - They have a pervasive pattern of making poor engineering decisions that tops the Japanese and American makes. American makes aren’t that far behind but I don’t think I’ve seen such a widespread trend from them. EcoBoosts, even the sketchier ones aren’t dropping like flies. GM hasn’t gone in on the dual-clutch trend.
They have plenty of flashes of brilliance but it sucks when they have only recently demonstrated a willingness or capability to build an EV reduction gearbox that doesn’t foul it’s oil immediately. And having to learn to not under-size ABS wiring (fire).
One instance, a rule doesn’t make.
Okay. Well looking at brand reliability numbers from JD Power, they’re 8th. (Genesis which is their premium line is 2nd).
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds
Where’s your data to back up your meaningless claims?
JD Power a world renowned Advertising group. It’s research paid for by the company wishing to promote itself. It’s fake yelp for Auto Makers. Total biased crap.
https://jalopnik.com/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-jd-power-a-1818818969
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
Okay how about Consumer Reports (an independent member-funded nonprofit), who put Kia/Hyundai at 10/11, admittedly showing Genesis much lower in the pack (18). Kia/Hyundai still beat out every American manufacturer on the list (not that its an overwhelmingly high bar).
They’re definitely not perfect, but more middle of the road than older stigmas might have people believe.
Yeah, to call them shitty is disingenuous. They’re a solid brand at an affordable price which makes them pretty darn good for most Americans. And they still refused to actually point to any actual data about them being a bad brand. Just said JD Power is bad.
Agreed, and I’ll add, as an EV owner, none of the brands above them have anything resembling a respectable EV lineup, except maybe BMW, but that’s being generous. Toyota, Honda, and their subsidiaries make great cars, but they’ve dragged their feet more than anyone on the EV market.
As far as I’m concerned, if you’re looking at this from an EV buyer’s perspective, KIA/Hyundai top the list (which is reflected in CR’s EV ratings, giving them the top spot for the last few years)
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