China's central bank renewed its tough talk on bitcoin Friday, calling all digital currency activities illegal and vowing to crack down on the market.
@null_radix
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Time to see which cryptos are actully decentralized and censorship resistant! :)

Dragon
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I think the biggest issue is this makes the public sale of common items using crypto something that can never happen. Even if the coin is regulation resistant, real-world transactions are not.

@downdaemon
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good way to move capital out of china. it’s weird how much capital some chinese people have. is there a term for that economic system?

@Jeffrey
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The entire crypto ecosystem is over saturated with dumb money and fraud, I’m glad to see ANY government cracking down.

I started with crypto in like 2013-2014, I thought it was the coolest thing back then. I quickly found a lot of projects that were obviously going to fail, but at least I was actually using bitcoin for a few minor transactions back then. Eventually the prices skyrocketed and bitcoin was no good as a currency any more. Many of the other cryptos saw their prices grow 10000% or more during that spike and from that point on the whole community and ecosystem around blockchain / cryptocurrencies went to absolute shit. Like, half of all altcoins ended up being fraud, there was no regulation so you had merciless profiteers committing blatant price manipulation, and good projects were ruined because now, instead of progress, people could only see money.

Now the fraud is more sophisticated, but the technology powering blockchains is just as flawed as ever. Proof of Work is a crime against nature, it’s a pissing contest of who can waste the most resources. Proof of Stake is undemocratic and exploitative, literally whomever has the most money makes the rules. The elephant in the room is that cryptocurrencies have spent the last decade proving a centralized authority for consensus is many orders of magnitude more efficient than every decentralized consensus algorithm yet invented.

There are cool projects related to crypto and blockchain, but the good ones are few and far between in an ocean of shit. I mean, just look at the rules of this sub! Most types of content related to crypto and blockchain have to be explicitly banned here.

Halce
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Any money system has such problems. With crypto, the simplest rule of thumb is: just don’t buy shittycoins.

@null_radix
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yeah sure there are a lot of scams in crypto. But I disgree that you need an authority to tell ppl what is a scam or not. I don’t think the state should controll that. People should have the freedom to spend their money on scams if they want to.

Proof of Work is a crime against nature, it’s a pissing contest of who can waste the most resources.

Or its utilizing unused resources to secure a censorship resistant network.

Proof of Stake is undemocratic and exploitative, literally whomever has the most money makes the rules.

Not exatly, there are many PoS sytems though. I don’t know of any PoS system that allow validators to vote on protocol changes. There are several that use coin voting for protocol changes though. I also have mixed feeling about that.

centralized authority for consensus is many orders of magnitude more efficient than every decentralized consensus algorithm yet invented.

Sure, efficient is not the point. The point is to build system that can withstand nation-state attacks and noone can censor.

@Jeffrey
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But I disgree that you need an authority to tell ppl what is a scam or not. I don’t think the state should controll that. People should have the freedom to spend their money on scams if they want to.

It’s not about having an authority to tell people what is a scam, it’s about not spending $10 per transaction for electricity costs. It’s also about ensuring that there is effective arbitration for disputes, and ensuring that the financial sector is constrained by law. An authority does not need to be a government, but I believe it makes the most sense for an authority to be publicly responsible to a democratic constituency.

It’s easy to say people should have the freedom to spend their money on scams, but I’ve worked with a lot of people who lost all financial security by crypto trading, options trading, phone scams, multi-level-marketing, etc… It’s easy to say “oh well, that’s their own fault” but the damage done is absolutely devastating. When a system hurts the majority who participate should that system be legal?

Or its utilizing unused resources to secure a censorship resistant network.

Unfortunately this just isn’t the case. This is what cryptocurrency mining looks like, these aren’t “unused resources”, these are resources purpose built for mining. The majority of miners are using ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) mining equipment. When ASICs are not used massive GPU farms are used instead. There aren’t enough GPUs to meet demand, and cryptocurrency mining is the biggest contributor to the shortage. It is not the case that resources that would have gone to waste are being used to mine crypto, resources that could have been conserved are being squandered for crypto.

Not exatly, there are many PoS sytems though. I don’t know of any PoS system that allow validators to vote on protocol changes. There are several that use coin voting for protocol changes though. I also have mixed feeling about that.

I guess my real concern with Proof of Stake is that it is fundamentally regressive. If you stake a larger amount of a crypto you will reap a larger reward. A system structured to benefit its already affluent members the most is the definition of regressive.

Sure, efficient is not the point. The point is to build system that can withstand nation-state attacks and noone can censor.

But what if “a nation-state attack”, or censorship is the enforcement of financial laws? The largest use case for cryptocurrencies today is to conduct illegal transactions. Is it a good thing that the makers of ransomware are using cryptocurrency to evade law-enforcement? Is it a good thing that cryptocurrencies enable powerful elites to circumvent international sanctions? Cryptocurrencies don’t solve those problems, they facilitate and exacerbate those problems. Even if you believe the financial laws of a country are unjust, are cryptocurrencies the best way to challenge those laws?

I would also argue that efficiency is imperative. According to the numbers available here the electricity cost of one single bitcoin transaction is equivalent to 1,218,287 VISA transactions. It’s not even as if VISA is the pinnacle of efficiency, bitcoin is genuinely that wasteful.

@null_radix
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When a system hurts the majority who participate should that system be legal?

I think so far the majority has come out on top. I’m not at all fond of scams, but a simple metric; if a project is promising riches fast, it’s probably a scam. And if a majority of ppl are going all in on getting rich fast we have a broader social and cultural problem.

Unfortunately this just isn’t the case. This is what cryptocurrency mining looks like, these aren’t “unused resources"

Miners go for the cheapest electricity. Why is it cheap? because it can’t be used elsewhere atm. As far as the GPUs, ethereum is the largest consumer of GPU due to ethash. I had a small role to play in that as far as making GPU friendly. But honestly at the time we were not thinking about the global supply for GPUs. It was always supposed to be a temporary thing until we had PoS.

I guess my real concern with Proof of Stake is that it is fundamentally regressive. If you stake a larger amount of a crypto you will reap a larger reward. A system structured to benefit its already affluent members the most is the definition of regressive.

This dynamic exists with PoW also. It is just a layer removed. You need to buy asics, the more asics you have the more you can mine, ect. I think this problem is broader than PoS or PoW. For example I can use a crypto as collateral on one of the various defi lending platforms, borrow a stablecoin then lend the stable coin for a high APY (often competing with the rates you would get from staking). Figuring out how to redistribute wealth imbalances is interesting, but I doubt it will be solved on a layer 1 to start with. But I encourage you to work on designing such a system. The great thing about crypto is that you don’t need anyone’s permission to experiment with new economics. That saids if you, or anyone is actually interested in the problem feel free to message me.

Is it a good thing that the makers of ransomware are using cryptocurrency to evade law-enforcement?

On the topic of ransomware, crypto incentivizes the creation of secure computer systems. The weakness was always there, probably being exploited by state-actors all long, but unlike state agents crypto hackers have no incentive to lie and wait. Therefore the exploits become public much faster. It does give the propaganda machine a boogie man though but the real demons where always there… the state doesn’t like competition.

Is it a good thing that cryptocurrencies enable powerful elites to circumvent international sanctions?

The powerful elites already have that. The plebs don’t, with crypto we are on equal ground.

I would also argue that efficiency is imperative. According to the numbers available here the electricity cost of one single bitcoin transaction is equivalent to 1,218,287 VISA transactions. It’s not even as if VISA is the pinnacle of efficiency, bitcoin is genuinely that wasteful.

This comparison doesn’t make sense, I can open a lighting channel and do thousands for tx for a fraction of a penny. What you are really comparing is defense budgets. PoW is bitcoin’s military expenditure. If you want to compare it to  Visa you should factor in every Visa tx the yearly cost of the US military.

@null_radix
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deleted by creator

Support Trans People
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authority is necessary for progress

@downdaemon
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so another law that’s ignored when the powerful people do it

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