Dear, Lemmy...
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Hi, Lemmy! So I made two mistakes. But I’d like to inform Lemmy, that there is a free speech version of the Lemmy code being used to throw racial slurs around. That instance is called goatpen.co I advise you not to go there, as you will come across racial slurs on the front page.

So my first mistake was asking what people on discussions.app like to use for different social networks. One instance, as mentioned above was goatpen.co. My curiousity got the better of me, and I went to check it out. That was my second mistake. That place is a cesspool.

That’s all I wanted to say. Someone or some company is using lemmy’s code to host a lemmy-clone and make it a cesspool.

@nutomic
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Lemmy is open source, meaning that anyone can use it for whatever purpose they like. Realistically there is nothing we can do against that. The sooner we accept this reality, the better.

In my opinion, the main goal of Lemmy as a project is to challenge proprietary social media like Reddit. That wont be achievable if we try to exclude anyone from using Lemmy. Of course that doesnt mean that we have to agree with their opinions, and block tools exist exactly for this reason.

Also, I think if these extremists leave Reddit, that could eventually lead to their deradicalization. Reddit has no real incentive to deradicalize them, because more users and more activity means more ad money for them. But fediverse instances are usually run by volunteers in their free time, who have less incentive to permit such toxicity.

@libre_warrior
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Exactly! Algorithms ends up favouring polarization for the sake of polarization. Decentralized social infrastructures takes away this destructive element of social infrastructures and that alone will have a positive effect.

@southerntofu
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The problem is not polarization. The opposite of polarization is universal thought control. The problem is fascism and that Reddit communities are very reactionary and keep on pushing an alt-right agenda.

@libre_warrior
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I acknowledge that the word polarization is favoring centrism. I’d be pleased to hear an alternate word to describe the systematic effects on how people are clustered in attention maximization algorithms.

jhghjb (he/they)
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Realistically there is nothing we can do against that

except there are things you could do, if you were using an ethical open source license you’d be able to shut down goatpen.co without trouble

@handvat
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Just like a kitchen knife can be used by murderers does not mean that the kitchen knife manufacturer should actively monitor who is buying their knifes and go after the ones with bad intentions in my opinion. In the same way, I don’t think free software should be licensed under such an ethical open source license.

First of all, it’s just very hard to enforce I’d imagine. Would people who do not care about respecting human rights to begin with even care about such a license? You’re not stopping “evil” by making up rules that “evil” people don’t follow almost by definition. At least the license is more clear about what is considered as acceptable and what not unlike the infamous “The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil” clause, for which I have to give it some credit.

Everything you can make can be used for wrong things and I suppose you’ll have to accept that you’ll never have full control over that. The only thing that can stop something to be used by people with bad intentions is to never create it in the first place.

Besides, I´d rather have my enemy use open source software instead of closed source software. If they use open source software, it’s easier to get a grasp on what they’re capable of.

For software like Lemmy with federation, I’d just say to block those from federating to your own instances and stop giving those instances attention. As long as the flagship instances that federate with each other keep up a positive attitude, I would just ignore those extremist people’s instances

jhghjb (he/they)
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Just like a kitchen knife can be used by murderers does not mean that the kitchen knife manufacturer should actively monitor who is buying their knifes and go after the ones with bad intentions in my opinion

wrong

I’d just say to block those from federating to your own instances and stop giving those instances attention

that humanizes them, they’ll feel like “i’m not allowed there but at least i can exist”, which is a very dangerous precedent

@Thann
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Can you explain how we could practically ban kitchen knives from being bought by murders? Also, have you seen minority report?

jhghjb (he/they)
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Can you explain how we could practically ban kitchen knives from being bought by murders?

other, more progressive, countries have done it: https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Also, have you seen minority report?

i support minorities so i would never report them

@joojmachine
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i support minorities so i would never report them

ok that got a genuine chuckle out of me

jhghjb (he/they)
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you think it’s a joke? i’m out here fighting hate online by moderating reddit 10+ hours a day so people like you can have a nice environment

@joojmachine
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learn to take a joke bro, minority report is the name of a show so yeah, I think your reaction was funny

jhghjb (he/they)
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i apologize for not reading you comment properly and misinterpreting what you said

but i still find concerning that a movie with ‘minority’ in the name has a wh*te protagonist

@roastpotatothief
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it’s not about that kind of minority. you should watch it. it’s very good. makes you think about these issues a new way.

jhghjb (he/they)
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downloading it rn 👍

@a_Ha
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So, how did you like the movie ?

jhghjb (he/they)
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yeah, less than 3 minutes for the first bipoc womxn to appear, for a 2002 movie it is pretty damn impressive

@a_Ha
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  1. bipoc : Black, Indigenous, (and) People of Color POC,

  2. womxn is an alternative spelling of the English word woman. Wikipedia

it’s been a long time since i saw that film : please recall me who was that character 🤔

jhghjb (he/they)
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not a prominent (or even named) character unfortunately but the representation made me happy

@slacktoid
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The word minority has multiple definitions, to be clear refer to non white non straight people as minorities is ambiguous, they as a collective are a minority of the population and so so colloquially called minorities.

@TheAnonymouseJoker
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I died of laughter here. Thanks.

@Thann
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That is about banning long folding knives, not kitchen knives. Fundamentally you can ban things to prevent murders. You can ban some things to try and reduce the rate, but you can never stop murders from happening.

@lorabe
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what is going on in there, i am a minority in usa and if i suck as a person i deserve to be held accountable.

Please don’t give me a privilege that i didn’t request.

@lorabe
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Alright buddy you funny, i’m gonna take you as a troll account, but we need those in here. Welcome to lemmy.

jhghjb (he/they)
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check your privilege

@lorabe
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I will ;)

@Nasst
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Please tell me you’re a troll.

“At least I can exist” being “dangerous precedent” is low key advocating for genocide, btw.

@slacktoid
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Could you elaborate with a reason or so for why they are wrong?

jhghjb (he/they)
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i do not engage in bad-faith discussion

@slacktoid
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I have an issue with the ethical open source license, this is irrespective of my stance on free software, which is being ethical is ambiguous, it depends on the reader or interpreter as to what ethical is.

For example I would consider being anti racist ethical but someone else could interpret being anti racist as racist ( or however they victimize themselves )

That ambiguity, that my stupid ass could come up with off the cuff, is why its a bad license to use.

jhghjb (he/they)
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being racist is universally wrong

@southerntofu
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How could anti-racism be racist? Sure you can have resentment and preconceived ideas about a person based on their skin color, but racism is far more than this. First because there’s cultural racism, too. Second, because racism is a structural oppression which distirbutes power and resources unequally: there is not a single place on Earth to my knowledge where white people are victims of structural racism.

@Helix@feddit.de
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there is not a single place on Earth to my knowledge where white people are victims of structural racism

South Africa, right now.

@southerntofu
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Attacking landowners to reclaim the resources and lands they stole from the people is not racism. Make equality (racial and economic) a reality and you’ll see there’s no such “racism”, but when the white 10% own over 50% of the resources in the country, and the State is bent on oppressing the poor (such as evicting squats/slums for the profit of big landlords) there’s bound to be a backlash.

@shortcakefediverse
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deleted by creator

poVoq
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This video is crap, he doesn’t even make a logical argument against “ethical software”.

I also disagree with the idea behind “ethical software” because it is a bit like DRM, i.e. it has the potential to hurt the honest people that follow licenses, but those “unethical” people will laugh about it and use the software anyways.

@Thann
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Ethics have to be dictated… By a dictator…

@shortcakefediverse
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deleted by creator

@KLISHDFSDF
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Completely disagree with the video, pick any example and I can counter it logically.

If I make a hammer and my “usage license” states it can’t be used to threaten or intimidate others, is that unethical? If I make software and say you can only use it if you don’t threaten or intimidate others, is that unethical?

I’m not sure I see whats wrong with an ethical license. It’s not about “changing others” as the video you linked states multiple times, its about not enabling hate groups to leverage tools/resources for evil.

Edit: I don’t know who that guy in the video is but he’s projecting A LOT. Claiming the “ethical software” devs are “damaged broken people” - You take this man seriously?

jhghjb (he/they)