trash
58

Wow. That article is mind blowing. It describes me perfectly fine: I always behave as an arrogant asshole. I need to stop. I’ve been wanting to stop for a long time, but never figured out how. This article puts it plainly!

soronixa
link
fedilink
141Y

well, it’s not just privacy. choose any topic, any thing that matters to you, and there will be a significant number of people that just don’t care. any topic, privacy, climate change, this very pandemic, factory farming, capitalism, literally anything. I disagree with the writer of the article, I think there are indeed people who don’t care about privacy at all.

now how to change that? anyone has any ideas? I personally think it’s almost impossible to do it in any meaningful way. you can try and explain how online tracking works, how much their data is being collected, talk to them about Snowden’s revealations, all that. after you’ve finished, they have already made their mind. they will either become more careful, or reject the whole idea. it is after this point that I think you just can’t change their mind anymore. so I guess having a good explanation of why privacy is important, and a good description of the current problems is what matters the most. it’s like you’ve got a single shot and it’s hit or miss.

but again it applies to everything. try to educate someone who denies climate change, they have already made their mind and I honestly don’t know how anyone can change someone’s mind at that point.

@ganymede
link
fedilink
5
edit-2
1Y

I’m still leaning towards the idea that a ‘one size fits all approach’, probably isn’t going to work.

At one point i started discussing the idea that for those who won’t value privacy for its own merits, may at least appreciate the $ value they’re giving away, literally every day.

It wasn’t long after that, we started seeing articles suggesting this was a bad approach because people should value it for a higher reason than monetary value.

And I mean sure, according to us they probably should, but will they? ever? I’m still leaning towards employing multiple approaches depending on what each individual person values.

@TheAnonymouseJoker
mod
link
fedilink
13
edit-2
1Y

I am going to prove this wrong with yesterday’s example on Discord, I guess. Here we go:

chat (open picture in browser and zoom)

Ordinary folks are absolutely unreasonable and try to blockade any and all privacy arguments, even if one does not use epithets like “normies”. They will tell you that you are terrorist/pedophile/drug maker and so on. This is what privacy advocates and enthusiasts have to fight regularly.

@Lunacy
banned
link
fedilink
7
edit-2
6M

deleted by creator

Definitely, but presenting the argument to soften a hardcore privacy nutjob stance, while can be helpful, also presents a problem like I showed.

I always speak so much about OPSEC and always tell, ask and present solutions based on threat models for people. This is not what most privacy nutjobs really do, who think they are saving the world with their elitism.

Atleast for the ~9k or so people on my reddit r/privatelife, and for the ~300 on c/privatelife, I have somewhat managed to crush this elitism and bring them closer to attaining extremely healthy privacy levels, without suggesting to install custom ROM or buy iPhone (which is snake oil IMHO). Changing debate away from elitism, helping people for the collective good and condemning such nonsensical rhetorics like the chat I presented, a common phenomenon, is critical and the need of the hour.

@Echedenyan
admin
link
fedilink
3
edit-2
1Y

I think it is better to ask joepie91 for a clarification.

Dessalines
admin
link
fedilink
121Y

Great essay, does a really great job of pointing out how condescending a lot of privacy advocates can be, and how using the socratic method is a much better way to get people to think about privacy.

I also want to add this related and wonderful essay that critiques how richard stallman does this, and also sees privacy and free software problems as individual problems requiring individualistic solutions, rather than collective ones requiring a unified approach.

https://archive.is/czq8c

@nutomic
admin
link
fedilink
81Y

Great essay, I think it deserves its own post.

Hope you don’t mind if I post it. I’m sure it’ll generate some great comments from fellow Lemmynauts, and I’d love to read them, especially after reading the comments on the article.

@nutomic
admin
link
fedilink
51Y

Thanks!

I clicked on this with a “this really shouldn’t use that word” mindset, and was very pleasantly surprised

@Slatlun
link
fedilink
91Y

This article agrees with every other article helping people who are so deep in an issue that they don’t give room for someone who knows less or who has different values.

Bottom line: How do I convince person X to take action Y? Step one, build a relationship not based on them agreeing with you. Step two, talk about things of mutual interest which may or may not let you convince them of anything. Third step (advanced users only), you learn something.

Tux
link
fedilink
91Y

I feel like this person is thinking that when we say ‘‘normies’’ we look down on those people.Just because you think thats what ‘‘normies’’ mean doesnt mean its what other people use it for.I think when we say ‘‘normies’’ we mean that these people are more into things like google and things that most people use everyday unlike us who try to break away from such things.Also they talk about being pushy.Not everyone is like this.When I talked to a family member about it I was far from pushy and tried to explain why its bad for your privacy to use this service and how you could use this alternative.They asked me ways to do other stuff that they like to do in a more privacy oriented fashion but they sadly still didn’t care. When they say people do care about privacy it is true but when they look at digital privacy they dont see it the same way as irl privacy like locking the bathroom door and such.Just because they care about irl privacy doesnt mean that they will feel the same about digital privacy.

Tmpod
link
fedilink
11Y

I’d say normie is usually used in a more derogatory sense. It is a diminutive of “normal” of joking nature, it is not a neutral term.

But yeah, I agree with the rest.

@uberstar
link
fedilink
81Y

This is provocative clickbait-y title done right.

It’s true that the compromises presented by alternative privacy-friendly software are TOO big for some people, and it should be understood that everyone’s threat model in the privacy context varies wildly. This perpetual bashing of unalike-minded people can actually be spotted in r/privacy and it can be sickening to lurk there [insert c/privacy praise here :) ].

It definitively opened my mind 👍🏼

@Echedenyan
admin
link
fedilink
5
edit-2
1Y

I have been changing in different situations and tend to plan things better. However, a few times I recognize to get pissed and act in a stupid and unfriendly way with ironic jokes in the middle. :^)

Maybe the author got into the same situation while writing the article, because it starts like pissed and finish being friendly.

@Zevena
link
fedilink
31Y

NoRmIeS

article: uses the word normies

me: niiice

@gmate8
link
fedilink
01Y

Then now we need to stop helping people. Okay.

@nutomic
admin
link
fedilink
12
edit-2
1Y

Pushing your own opinions on other people is not helpful, whether its about privacy or any other topic. Instead you should try to understand their situation (without judging), offer advice/help when they ask for it, and lead by example.

@gmate8
link
fedilink
41Y

Oookay. Thanks for the advice. :')

@Lunacy
banned
link
fedilink
6
edit-2
6M

deleted by creator

@Jojonintendo
link
fedilink
1
edit-2
1Y

deleted by creator

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

  • Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn’t great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
  • Don’t promote proprietary software
  • Try to keep things on topic
  • If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
  • Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
  • Be nice :)

Related communities

Chat rooms

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

  • 0 users online
  • 12 users / day
  • 69 users / week
  • 114 users / month
  • 442 users / 6 months
  • 5.04K subscribers
  • 1.91K Posts
  • 7.7K Comments
  • Modlog