Hamas has spent years stockpiling desperately needed fuel, food and medicine, as well as ammo and weapons, in the miles of tunnels it has carved out under Gaza.
If Hamas had operated strictly & solely against Israeli military units & installations on 10/7/23 and left civilians the hell alone, we wouldn’t have to be here.
Hamas has never focused on military targets. Their founding charter specifically calls for the death of all Jews worldwide and forbids any conception of peace.
Americans really shouldn’t be judging other groups by their founding charters 🤨
How many civilians are you personally comfortable with dying, past those already dead. No “they’re in the way” bullshit. Give your conscience a number.
War is shitty, that’s why it’s used as a final option
Comfortable with? Zero. None of this is comfortable. Nobody is happy right now. It’s not like 10/7, when people went around rejoicing in Jewish suffering—now that the war is on, everybody is upset.
I’ve yet to hear a serious alternative.
Hamas was just following the rules of warfare that the IDF established. It’s sad that IDF reservists and veterans in the kibbutz used their own families as human shields, but Israel has made it very clear that they believe in killing human shields and the world supports them for it.
Typical clownish argument
Typical ledditor reply 🥱
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The western media interviewed her in English instead of making up some bullshit translation.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/24/hostage-hamas-released-israel-ebof-sot-vpx.cnn
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What does Arabic have to do with the source you posted?
You know that language wasn’t Arabic, right?
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I can’t believe you’re still acting like you have moral superiority here lol
“OK, fine - I made up my whole argument, but you’re probably lying too! Afterall, it’s what I’d do!”
I mean jeez, if you’re going to lie through your teeth about something to try and support some made up point, at least take the 5 seconds to do find out what it is you’re lying about
Edit: lol, he blocked me - what a tool
What? I don’t speak enough Hebrew to understand her interview in Hebrew, which is why I provided her testimony in English, which you can understand without a need of a Translation, and which also addressed your confused question of why Western media wasn’t reporting on it—it was.
And then you went on to tell the stupidest fucking lie in this thread.
So what are you removed about?
But the Israelis killed themselves is just the kind of BS hamas is known for.
The quote is from a civilian hostage, not Hamas.
The quote is from a news site you’ve never heard of. Here she is speaking in English on CNN.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/24/hostage-hamas-released-israel-ebof-sot-vpx.cnn
I saw the CNN interview. She didn’t mention the Israeli troops murdering civilians. The interview was with an Israeli radio station and reported on by Haaretz, which is a well known Israeli newspaper.
I cannot find any sign of Yasmin Porat’s name on Haaretz, at least not in their English site. Can you link to the report you’re talking about?
Sorry, Haaretz wasn’t her, it was a guy named Tuval, but is in Hebrew. He said:
Haaretz reports: “According to him [Tuval], only on Monday night and only after the commanders in the field made difficult decisions – including shelling houses with all their occupants inside in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages – did the IDF [Israeli army] complete the takeover of the kibbutz. The price was terrible: at least 112 Be’eri people were killed. Others were kidnapped. Yesterday, 11 days after the massacre, the bodies of a mother and her son were discovered in one of the destroyed houses. It is believed that more bodies are still lying in the rubble.”
Jacobin article about Yasmin Porat. But again, that references the radio interview, which has been removed since. This is not a hill I’m willing to die on. With scant sources that reference each other and censoring, take this account with skepticism.
Definitely Hamas’s fault Israel is an apartheid state bombing civilians. /s Palestinians in the West Bank might disagree. Source
I’m pretty sure Israel is sitting on Gazan’s food and water. 😒
Thought experiment! Let’s imagine Hamas gave up all the hypothetical stockpiled food, water, fuel, medicine, etc.
That would last maybe one day or two.
What happens on day three?
Oh right, Israel kills everyone anyway. Fuck off NYT.
let’s just clarify, is there anything you said that you didn’t pull out of your ass?
Israel is depriving Gaza of food and water. Fact.
Hamas, if they have stockpiles, do not have enough food or water or fuel or medicine for 2.2 million people. Where would they keep it all? Do you realize how much that actually is? I need to see some proof that they have entire warehouses packed with supplies that could last for more than a day or two, and the burden is on Israel to back up their claims.
At most they could maybe provide a day or two - that’s me being generous to this obvious propaganda. I don’t believe they could actually give 2.2 million people even half a day, but if I assume they somehow have an entire city of food and fuel under their pillows it could never last.
And you know as soon as Hamas was out of supplies Israel would launch the ground invasion and kill everyone. Or do you think they’re going to spare people who didn’t evacuate to the Southern bombing zone?
Fuck off.
Israel is depriving Gaza of food and water. Fact.
Israel only ever supplied ~10% of Gaza’s water, and returned the supply of that water on 10/15. It’s also been letting food aid in. Get your facts straight.
Their struggles to get water are happening because Hamas steals fuel from the power plants (which run desalination plants) and digs up water pipes to turn into rockets.
Hamas, if they have stockpiles, do not have enough food or water or fuel or medicine for 2.2 million people. Where would they keep it all? Do you realize how much that actually is? I need to see some proof that they have entire warehouses packed with supplies that could last for more than a day or two, and the burden is on Israel to back up their claims.
I mean, you could try reading the article, it talks about the supply they keep in tunnels. And they have their bases, they have plenty of bases. And there’s always the half a million liters of fuel found in the south, not to mention the fuel they use to fire rockets, or anything. They have a network of bases under the hospital, stealing the power supply from the hospital’s generator, you know that, right?
The fuel is more than enough to run hospital generators + desalination plants, but neither of those things is worthwhile for Hamas. They have food, they have water, they just want to fire rockets and control Palestinians and provoke war.
At most they could maybe provide a day or two
Again: you pulled this out of your ass. You base this on absolutely nothing. You didn’t read the article past the headline, or any other information on the topic. Prove me wrong. Cite a source.
And you know as soon as Hamas was out of supplies Israel would launch the ground invasion and kill everyone. Or do you think they’re going to spare people who didn’t evacuate to the Southern bombing zone?
Obviously, Israel is going to target Hamas. If they wanted to kill everyone, they could have done so already, that’d have been super easy for them. Their strikes have been targeted, but it hasn’t been an effective way to root out Hamas. The ground invasion is the only answer. You’re an idiot if you think Israel is targeting civilians.
Israel only ever supplied ~10% of Gaza’s water, and returned the supply of that water on 10/15.
Israel provides the fuel they need to access the water, so turning the water on without providing fuel is fucking pointless.
It’s also been letting food aid in. Get your facts straight.
It’s been letting in too few trucks to actually feed everyone. They need many times more than what is being allowed in. Those are starvation rations, not actual relief. Get your facts straight, you’re the one paying to read the news you should already know this shit.
I mean, you could try reading the article
I’m not making an account. But! I was able to copy some of it behind the popup to read:
“Hamas has hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel for vehicles and rockets; caches of ammunition, explosives and materials to make more; and stockpiles of food, water and medicine, the officials said. A senior Lebanese official said Hamas, which is estimated to number between 35,000 and 40,000, had enough stocked away to keep fighting for three to four months without resupply.”
Okay, so doing some math, Hamas represents 1.8% of the population. Ignoring how complicated converting “fuel for guerilla warfare” and “fuel for civilian use” is, lets just do a 1:1 and assume its the same. Three to four months divided out over 2.2 million people is 1 to 1 and a half days.
So, Hamas is supposed to use up all their fuel and make it easy for Israel to kill them all the next fucking day.
If they wanted to kill everyone, they could have done so already, that’d have been super easy for them
This has never been true. Killing everyone requires either a ground invasion and sustaining a lot of casualties or committing so many war crimes that they turn the world against them - either way they start a regional war, maybe even WW3. They can’t actually do that, so they’re trying to ethnically cleans Gaza by pushing them into Southern Gaza and then into Egypt.
“Israel could kill everyone anytime they want too, they’re just too merciful to do that!” is a colonialist lie that Israel tells the world to both bolster their own international image and dehumanize Hamas. The reality is Israel is much weaker than it lets on.
If you are graced with Queermunists presence more than once, you quickly realize that the posts consist of pure hate against Israel. Queermunist is part of a clique that openly cheers for Hamas.
Edit: Welcome Tokenboomer, we were just starting to talk about your lot, when I saw your post.
Edit 2: Welcome TinyPizza
I feel like this is supposed to shift attention from the blockade of humanitarian aide. Yeah… no. Let these people trapped there at least have a last meal before they’re killed by killed by an air strike or tank or helicopter or settlers doing ethnic cleansing or troops or…
Because as we know, cowardly Hamas terrorists only use civilians as shields. Hamas are scum.
Hamas didn’t exist until 1987. Was Hamas to blame for the violence before then too?
I’m talking about October 2023.
Yes and we’re talking about decades of Israeli terrorism, predating Hamas.
Well no, not really, the thread is about Hamas and you are the first one to bring up Israeli terrorism.
But it’s not like Jewish violence in the region predates Muslim violence. The pogroms have been going since at least the 1920s. Things escalated. Nobody is saying Hamas was the start, but Hamas is the biggest problem right now.
Jewish violence in the region literally predates Muslim violence, Judaism came hundreds of years before Islam.
The biggest problem right now is Israel. step one is for them to stop murdering thousands of children.
Jewish violence in the region literally predates Muslim violence, Judaism came hundreds of years before Islam.
Alright, I guess we’re being pedantic now.
Jews got expelled from the region and kept out of it by various European and Arab powers until they started buying land back in the late 1800s. From that point on, Jewish violence was not the start of violence in the region, it was Muslim violence and Muslim unwillingness to coexist with Jews. It ramped up well before 1987, well before 1948.
The biggest problem right now is Israel. step one is for them to stop murdering thousands of children.
Israel is not targeting children. Hamas is using them as human shields. The “3000” number is from Hamas—it includes victims of rocket misfires, and also is a straight up lie, just like their count of the victims at Al-Ahli hospital was a lie. Yes, there are still too many children dying, and yes, too many of them still die as a result of Israeli air strikes. This is the main reason Israel wanted them to be evacuated. Every other country evacuates civilians from war zones, but Hamas cannot allow that, or else the statistics might not favor them. They use propaganda and physical force to keep Palestinian children in buildings that are specifically targets for bombs.
Hamas is, by far, the biggest problem in the region.
Sure. But was that a good reason for Hamas to murder civilians? Was it a good reason for Hamas to murder civilian citizens of Canada, US, UK and many other countries? FUCK NO. Hamas needs to be completely eradicated – PERIOD
Okay so let’s eliminate Hamas and Israel.
No. Eradicate Hamas.
No.
Eradicate Israel and Hamas.
Why do you support terrorists?
Imagine you have never had enough to eat, imagine you have to spend 2-4 hours a day just going through checkpoints to get to your brutal low paying 8 or 10 or 12 hour job to support your family, imagine you live with six other families all crammed together in a single building. You never had a chance to go to secondary education, you never had a chance to learn an accredited trade skill, you don’t even have a legitimate passport, you have no hope and no future and your life expectancy is 40 and its exactly the same for your kids.
Then imagine your wife, your children, your brother, your sister, your nieces and nephews, and all the other people you live with in your building were all brutally murdered in an Israeli air strike. You sacrificed your entire life to provide for them and now they’re all dead.
I’d kill myself. What about you?
Again this still doesn’t justify terrorist Hamas’s brutal murders of civilians.
You aren’t really imagining it, I can tell. That’s okay. Imagining life in a concentration camp is hard.
Try. What would you do?
Well, there’s your problem. Source
“It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum,” Guterres said. “The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation. They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”
NOTHING makes it okay to perform the terrorist murders Hamas did.
but is the daily plight of Palestinians Okay?
I stand with Palestinian and Israeli civilians and hope they can find leaders who want a solution after Hamas is eradicated.
And Netanayhu is deposed (which many Israelis support).
You and I can’t imagine what life is like in occupied Palestine. Who am I to judge how oppressed people choose to resist. I don’t have that right, having never been in their shoes.
Nelson Mandela-
I and some colleagues came to the conclusion that as violence in this country was inevitable, it would be wrong and unrealistic for African leaders to continue preaching peace and non-violence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force. It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle.
If you’re curious and want to understand the conflict better, Vice did a deep dive into the conflict.
Nothing justifies it. But there are plenty of reasons that explain it. Abusing someone doesn’t justify them murdering their abuser, but it sure as hell explains it. When I poke a dog I may not feel that it’s legally justified in biting me, but I’m hardly surprised.
Ukraine and Israel supporter. I bet i know your “hair style”
I’m not sure I follow here…
Rafa is a moron. Pay them no attention, they’re always making incredibly braindead takes.
He is suggesting that you are a nazi.
Ruzzia and Hamas are best buddies - of course the Hamas Apologists on Lemmy will not contradict the Ruzzian narrative of Ukraine being Nazis since THEMSELVES are claiming that Israelis are Nazis.
I’m not OP, and OP said:
Because as we know, cowardly Hamas terrorists only use civilians as shields. Hamas are scum.
I got the skinhead implication, but…
Oh! I see! I thought rafa was saying that rafa was a supporter of Ukraine and Israel, that’s the logic I missed. Yeah, I’m familiar with the old trope of accusing Jews of being Nazis.
Please, continue.
Don’t feed the troll.
Is it this?
Sorry, YouTube is blocked in my country
Sorry. It’s this guy:
