China and Russia urge independent probe into Canada’s treatment of indigenous people as anger over mass-grave discovery rages — RT World News
www.rt.com
external-link
Amidst unabating public anger in Canada over the discovery last month of a mass grave of indigenous children, a coalition of countries, including China and Russia, has called for a “thorough and impartial” probe into the tragedy.
@ksynwa
link
144M

Are any probes really needed? The history of genocide is pretty well recorded and proven. If there were to be an investigation it would only be about the quantity and quality of reparation.

@yogthos
link
154M

Clearly the scope of the atrocities is still unkown as we’ve just found hundreds of children in mass graves in residential schools in Canada. Note that these crimes didn’t happen in some distant past either, these schools operated will into 90s. I do think an investigation is very much warranted as many of the perpetrators are still around.

@ksynwa
link
64M

Great point.

@yogthos
link
44M

I’m guessing this is just the tip of the iceberg given just how many were found already.

@pingveno
link
14M

A couple of years ago I went to Vancouver, B.C. on my honeymoon. My impression was that Canada is making a good faith effort to acknowledge the rich history of the First Nations and the sins of Canada’s past, and making amends where it can. It isn’t perfect by any stretch of the word and everything’s a work in progress, but this is just faux outrage.

@AgreeableLandscape
mod
admin
link
6
edit-2
4M

I’m Canadian, and I can say that what Canada is doing is mostly lip service and simple actions that don’t require much money or giving up actual control of the land they stole.

Example: My university, UBC, in Vancouver, is built on “unceded” Coast Salish land. So instead of giving them back any meaningful control of the land, they just “consult” them every now and then, and have “we acknowledge we’re on unceded land” plastered all over their website and say it at the start of every school year. It’s literally become a meme because students can tell that it has no real meaning behind it. But hey, they name some dorm buildings after the local tribes so they must care, right? All the while the area around the campus (which is still unceded land) is dominated by rich people’s houses.

Another example that was taught to me just this summer in my environmental science class: A large portion of Indigineous communities still have to boil their tap water before it’s considered safe to drink, despite Canada boasting about having some of the highest quality water in the world (and it definitely does, just not for those people I guess).

Final example to show the actual attitudes about these things: people everywhere were saying how they feel for the victims that they recently discovered, and how horrible this is, but when a campaign arose to cancel this year’s Canadian independence day celebrations and turn it into a day of mourning (just this year, just a few months after the discovery, mind you, they’re not even saying to mourn every year), people lost their goddamn minds at the prospect.

@AgreeableLandscape
mod
admin
link
4
edit-2
4M

@yogthos@lemmy.ml, you’re in Eastern Canada, right? How are things going with Indigenous peoples over there? I only know about what is happening on the west side.

@yogthos
link
24M

I’m in Toronto, from what I understand Indigenous communities are rightly shocked by this in Ontario. These graves show that residential schools were far more horrific than has been publicly acknowledged previously.

@ksynwa
link
24M

At University of Toronto, we were told.nothing about indigenous people during our orientation or anything like that. I guess for Canadian people it wouldn’t be needed as much, though I think even that is debatable, but as an international student I would have liked to learn about it a bit sooner. All the indigenous related stuff I came to know much later by accident.

@ksynwa
link
34M

What kind of amends have they made? As far as I know natives still disproportionately overrepresented in stats such as homelessness and prison population.

Oue
link
64M

Lmao, that’s rich coming fron those countries…

Halce
link
104M

So you think it’s not legitimate for them to urge a probe, but it is legitimate for western countries (mainly the US/UK) to urge similar probes around ‘human rights concerns’ into the conduct of China, and Russia?

Elbullazul
link
84M

Unless I’m missing something, Canada isn’t currently re-educating minorities at the moment. Although natives aren’t really treated very well by the government

Halce
link
34M

This was apparently going on until the 1970s, and even 1990s. Fairly recent, I think.

@ksynwa
link
34M

Yes they are indeed not treated very well by the government

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
-34M

True, there is no re-education, they all just get drugged, dragged and jobbed.

@Ripuli
link
-74M

It’s obviously a move from China to go “no u”. A probe would be great but historic bad treatment and even genocide isn’t quite the same as ongoing one.

It’s hard to take this call for a probe from China seriously because of that.

@nutomic
admin
creator
link
64M

If Canada is so concerned about genocide, they should lead by example and allow a thorough examination of their own crimes, before they point the fingers at others. Otherwise its just hypocrisy and double standards.

@Ripuli
link
-34M

Absolutely but also China is doing the exact same thing, pointing fingers at Canada’s past while they’re doing the same right now. It’s hypocrisy all around.

@k_o_t
admin
link
44M

for sure, but this doesn’t nullify these claims…

@Ripuli
link
04M

I don’t think anyone is saying Canada shouldn’t do a probe into their treatment of indigenous people, it’s just very very hypocritical of China to demand a probe while being furious when others want one in China.

@k_o_t
admin
link
24M

yes, yes it is

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
2
edit-2
4M

I wonder who is wrong… the ones with recorded evidence of native and overseas genocides, or the ones on whom the evidence is shady, faked and unprovable. I wonder…

@AlmaemberTheGreat
link
3
edit-2
3M

deleted by creator

@AgreeableLandscape
mod
admin
link
11
edit-2
4M

Maybe if they allowed independent investigations, people would believe it.

One, independent investigations have taken place in China over the Xinjiang thing which is what you’re probably thinking of. The World Bank went in and investigated, Pakistan did too, the EU didn’t though because they refused.

Two, it wouldn’t (and didn’t) change a damn thing. The WHO visited China and investigated the COVID pandemic and all they got for their effort is the US accusing them of being a Chinese shill.

Meanwhile, the Pulitzer prize winning “investigation” that Buzzfeed did of Xinjiang alleging genocide (no evidence AFAIK they they ever actually set foot in the Xinjiang province tho) was debunked by someone on Reddit.

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
14M

That is not exactly true, though. Jack Ma was killed, according to Western media. He is somehow alive, unless China found out ways to fake his existence via holograms. So was Dr Li Wenliang, where he was only brought to police station for 2 hours, and later upon death CPC posthumously awarded him for his work.

Dessalines
admin
link
7
edit-2
4M

The power of socialist / juche necromancy really hit home to me last year, when reddit was convinced that kim jong un died, on the basis of zero evidence. This hit the front page of reddit several times about how he died, and there was a massive coverup to hide it.

After a month or two, new pics showed he was fine, and redditors ignored it. Even the reputable western news sources are no better than tabloids at this point, but their audience will still believe anything without evidence.

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
54M

Daniel Dumbrill’s video on USA’s censorship few hours ago is such an excellent piece on critical thinking almost wiped out from the consumers of Western tabloid news media. And it is not just Americans, but Indians, Europeans, Africans, USA leaning South American countries and so many Asians that fall for this stuff hook, line and sinker.

I definitely hope the citizens of this world gain critical thinking skills back in some way possible, even if it will take a few decades. From the past couple years, in relation to COVID, something has changed in terms of transparency, both regarding what citizens believe becoming apparent, and what news media is running to keep citizens fooled.

@pingveno
link
-24M

I blame that more on the political dynamics of the DPRK and how opaque it is. The current political equilibrium is reliant on a perception of strength from a single person. He must keep any weaknesses secret, therefore any actions that could be keeping a weakness secret are interpreted as a possible death.

@lorabe
link
44M

Just gonna say for the record that, neither China nor Russia are socialist countries, actually China is more neoliberalist than USA right now, and Russia is an oligarhchy. China is pretty much applying all the steps written in the book of imperialism in order to replace america.

Furthermore, both countries are highly autoritarian. Let’s not make them the good boys of this story. Canada is a highly hypocrite country that was built on genocide and keeps supporting expansionist countries such as Israel.

Halce
link
44M

The US isn’t an oligarchy yet, you think?

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
04M

China is not imperiaist. Duh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7VhFHdmKdc

@lorabe
link
34M

Not gonna watch the video right now, but China fulfills every category to be an imperialist country.

They are expansionist by nature, claiming Taiwan, they use their money to extend their influence, the so called soft power, they lend money to weak countries that want to develop infrastructure with the condition that if they don’t pay the money china gets the infrastructure. That is an aggressive expansionist activity.

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
2
edit-2
4M

not gonna hear other opinions

gonna stick to my opinions

Yep, sounds like it. Backfire theory. Learn about imperialism, capitalism and socialism first before making such uneducated comments.

expansionist, claim Taiwan

Buddy, Taiwan is a separatist region, not a country. For a state to be a country, it has to be a de jure sovereignty. Taiwan is a de facto state. Ever heard Taiwan declaring independence, or being recognised as a country by a majority of countries in UN, let alone just 15 countries?

if they don’t pay the money china gets the infrastructure

Can you explain the 87 cases of debt freed or restructured by China to other countries, in that case? Or are you going to pick on 1 case of Hambantota, like most dishonest people do, where Sri Lankan firm still has 30% shares of the port?

@lorabe
link
1
edit-2
4M

Yep, sounds like it. Backfire theory. Learn about imperialism, capitalism and socialism first before making such uneducated comments.

I wonder how downplaying my figure makes my points less valid.

Buddy, Taiwan is a separatist region, not a country. For a state to be a country, it has to be a de jure sovereignty. Taiwan is a de facto state.

You really have to check again what “de jure” and what “de facto” means. Taiwan pretty much enters in the category of a “de jure” state, since it doesn’t force it’s citizens to recognize the Taiwanese law by authoritarian means. Furthermore elections are a given and so far there are no fraud concerns.

Ever heard Taiwan declaring independence, or being recognised as a country by a majority of countries in UN, let alone just 15 countries?

This is so close to be a compelling argument to use against the existence of Palestina as an estate, it’s funny how inconsistent some people can get just to justify Chinese expansionist policy over Taiwan.

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
6
edit-2
4M

I wonder how downplaying my figure makes my points less valid.

I wonder how I just pointed out the lack of education on relevant topic domains, and not downplayed your “figure”.

You really have to check again what “de jure” and what “de facto” means. Taiwan pretty much enters in the category of a “de jure” state, since it doesn’t force it’s citizens to recognize the Taiwanese law by authoritarian means. Furthermore elections are a given and so far there are no fraud concerns.

Is Taiwan a UN member? No. Did Taiwan declare its independence? No. How many countries recognise Taiwan as a country? 15/195. That makes Taiwan a de facto state, not a de jure sovereignty. Taiwan having its own currency or constitution does not make it a country, but a de facto state.

Kindly learn about de jure and de facto, and what qualifiers make a state a country or not.

This is so close to be a compelling argument to use against the existence of Palestina as an estate, it’s funny how inconsistent some people can get just to justify Chinese expansionist policy over Taiwan.

More countries recognise Palestine as a country, than Taiwan.

maps

http://i.imgur.com/FbRry3M.png, https://i.redd.it/2fgbx9hwvox21.jpg, https://i.redd.it/9r2xwvxdw4961.png

Any more questions?

@ksynwa
link
24M

Can you send me a link to the website of the Taiwanese embassy in your country?

@AgreeableLandscape
mod
admin
link
44M

How the turntables

@Ripuli
link
54M

Would be best if both the Canadas historic actions and China’s current ones would be thoroighly “probed”, but somehow I don’t feel like all parties are very willing of that

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
44M

I like that this game has been started to be played now. This game will certainly cause a rupture in the trust of Western CFR/Murdoch/Bilderberg news media among people, over decades, and possibly allow many to regain critical thinking, which they all lost in the comfort of bread and circus capitalism.

News from around the world!

Rules:

  • Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc

  • No NSFW content

  • No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc

  • 0 user online
  • 6 user / day
  • 14 user / week
  • 70 user / month
  • 226 user / 6 month
  • 1.51K subscriber
  • 1.12K Post
  • 1.46K Comment
  • Modlog