Introducing the new ProtonMail
protonmail.com
external-link

We have redesigned ProtonMail from the ground up to make it even easier to use, give it a new look, and add more personalization options.

Oh, still nonFLOSS. Dissapointing.

Even with things they promise to open source, there’s always too much waiting involved when it should all be open from the start.

@k_o_t
mod
admin
3
edit-2
5d

iirc they still haven’t undergone a security audit on that, and they’re obviously focused on security, given their target audience…

@Echedenyan
15d

🤦🏻

soronixa
35d

wikipedia says it’s under MIT licence which is compatible with GPL, so it must be FLOSS.

@Echedenyan
8
edit-2
5d

All server side is nonFree and some parts of the client side.

soronixa
35d

wow, I didn’t know. searched a bit and yeah, you’re right. their excuse is “it doesn’t add trust, because users have no way of verifying what code runs on our servers”. bullshit.

but does it matter for email services backed to be foss in practice? the main downside I can see is it makes self hosting impossible, but other than that does it matter?

@ajz
9
edit-2
5d

Not about email but Signal is open source for client and server software, supposedly well written software, and provides E2EE. Does it matter ? It is USA based, uses AWS and who knows what else is happening behind the scenes. I think people should choose a tool or service that fits their requirements. For example, one can be a Libre software advocate and wanting to use Tox and Jami and Briar only but if your colleagues, other parties/partners (you work with), family, friends etc. are not able or not willing to use that software then it is not going to work out. Self-hosting email is not that easy. Other email recommendations mentioned in comments Tutanota (open source clients, Android app is in F-Droid without Google dependency, server software unknown afaik), and Disroot (Small collective offering email and a lot more, likely only using FLOSS, for donations you can get more diskspace afair). Tutanota is cheap and you can have your custom domain, but just like with Protonmail there is no easy way to use email clients like Evolution,Claws,Thunderbird,Geary,Neomutt etc. Other interesting providers, good and also cheap : posteo.de and mailbox.org

soronixa
15d

ok, so my technical knowledge is limited, so correct if I’m wrong. I know that the content of emails is end to end encrypted (regardless of what runs on their backends), but emails have a header that can not be encrypted. so from what I understand, in practice it doesn’t matter that their backend is proprietary? because the header is exposed anyway and they can’t do anything about it? basically it’s the same problem with matrix, metadata can’t stay private, right?

still sucks that they’re not FOSS.

For example, one can be a Libre software advocate and wanting to use Tox and Jami and Briar only but if your colleagues, other parties/partners (you work with), family, friends etc. are not able or not willing to use that software then it is not going to work out.

I know, I still have to keep using whatsapp because of my college T_T

@ajz
3
edit-2
5d

ok, so my technical knowledge is limited, so correct if I’m wrong. I know that the content of emails is end to end encrypted (regardless of what runs on their backends), but emails have a header that can not be encrypted. so from what I understand, in practice it doesn’t matter that their backend is proprietary? because the header is exposed anyway and they can’t do anything about it? basically it’s the same problem with matrix, metadata can’t stay private, right?

Yes, I expect that with Protonmail (and Tutanota) your email content and attachments will be encrypted when emailing to other Protonmail users and headers like Subject not (Just like with OpenPGP, GnuPG/PGP). The moment you email from your Protonmail to a non PM user the email will be unencrypted. If you email from PM to another PM user I don’t think a header like Subject and Date/Time matter very much ? I think I read that the Signal fork Session claims to have no meta data. I guess most solutions will leave some meta data traces anyways.

I know, I still have to keep using whatsapp because of my college T_T

Ouch. Hopefully bridging via Matrix or Matterbridge will become easier and more reliable over time!

This is news to me. What email provider(s) do you recommend?

@Echedenyan
35d

Disroot, Buzon.uy and some provided in https://libreho.st

@freely
35d

I’ve never seen great recommendations on this after looking around. Personally I plan on self-hosting, even if it’s not recommended…

@ajz
55d

Self-hosting email for the first time is not so easy but it depends on who you want to email with and what your emailing out options are. For example some VPS providers offers limited emailing out options where they work on the outgoing email servers reputation, in that case things should be fine. But wanting to email out via a modem line with dynamic IP address could be a “mission impossible”

@freely
35d

The future plan is a VPS that my home server is connected to via Wireguard. Just trying to decide on a provider. Currently thinking ArticHost or BuyVM, but we’ll see…

@ajz
25d

Okay, good luck! I like Yunohost as a quick start for a simple email host. After the default install, and when you have your DNS settings right, you have an email and XMPP server ready.

@freely
35d

Hmm. It’s some sort of OS distro with a bunch of self-hoster stuff preconfigured? I’ve already been running Ubuntu server v20 LTS for a while now as my base. Mix of KVM & Docker stuff for my various needs.

@ajz
3
edit-2
5d

Good that you have used KVM and Docker already. Yes, Yunohost will configure a lot of things for you, and then you can install a lot of other software, usually without much interfering needed. Of course if you want to tinker and learn more about email hosting, for example this looks pretty good https://thomas-leister.de/en/mailserver-debian-stretch/ I follow him on Mastodon, and I thought he also had the same howto for Ubuntu but I can’t find it. At the end of the page there is a “web interface for managing user accounts” mentioned. I also like this, which I sometimes use to look up snippets : https://workaround.org/ispmail There’s also easier solutions like mailcow and modoboa.

soronixa
55d

I’ve seen Tutonota and Disroot being recommended.

@freely
35d

Never heard of Disroot. My Tutanota got deleted because I didn’t use it (previously went protonmail)

@ajz
3
edit-2
5d

Disroot is nice. https://disroot.org/en You will get an email alias @getgoogleoff.me for free :-)

(I think for Tutanota and Protonmail for their free tier they both have deletion policy if you don’t use it for six months ?)

@Echedenyan
15d

Wtf, they added that additional domain for real?

@ajz
35d

Yes, they did! :) It was the winner of a contest. https://disroot.org/en/blog/happy-2020

@Echedenyan
15d

Wow, I am very disconnected of these updates.

I think I am of the few ones who doesn’t participate in the community.

@ajz
1
edit-2
5d

In 2019 I did spend much more time on Mastodon, where you can follow Disroot so that is why I followed this contest a bit. You can also still follow their status page via XMPP I believe. The blog probably has RSS feed, and there is the forum as well.

@Echedenyan
2
edit-2
5d

Uff, I left the Fediverse in 2020 with the exception of Lemmy and Matrix.

I didn’t receive very well the elitism of some people away of the Mastodon.social circles (remember that there is a normal Fediverse and a weird one, so I speak about the weird one which is the best).

The RSS, sure. I should add it.

The forum… I forgot about it 😂.

@gmate8
25d

What do you mean? It is.

@Echedenyan
25d

I replied to @soronixa@lemmy.ml

@ajz
7
edit-2
5d

Protonmail app on F-Droid (main repo) ongoing discussions : https://github.com/ProtonMail/proton-mail-android/issues/1 and https://gitlab.com/fdroid/rfp/-/issues/1323 - Scroll down in both cases for the latest entries.

New web interface looks neat btw.

The proton mail app is still not on F-droid. Proton VPN is!

It is, it’s just on one of the additional repositories, not the main one.

Elbullazul
55d

dark theme ❤

Oue
-25d

Dislike

@gmate8
1
edit-2
5d

deleted by creator

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

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