Capitalism.

So, the one who thrives in this capitalist world is the one who makes the most money. however, the only way you make the most money is by exploiting the environment, creating carbon emission through production. the typical eco-capitalist argument is “We vote with our money so we can vote for the good of the environment” well, we can’t vote with our money because they don’t even sell anything eco friendly. we can’t even afford things like solar panels because these same companies minimize our wages and on top of that the government taxes us. only the rich can buy those things. big companies has already monopolize the market to make it impossible for the smaller businesses (like small restaurants and other shops) to thrive. this argument doesn’t work, because we cannot vote for the good of the environment in this capitalist world.

@2wT
28d

You are aware that you can also regulate capitalism? For example tax fossil fuels. Subsidies solar panels, introduce high enough minimum wages, redistribute wealth through taxes, etc. So is the system actually the problem or is it that these rules are not made?

@Evelyn
creator
48d

A bit of both, Capitalism was already unregulated and the results are environmental disasters and the byproducts of capitalism; those who exploit the environment (the government is no exception) are the ones in control of the system, smaller people that actually care about the environment but can’t do anything within the capitalist system other than work together for an actual revolution, to fix the environment. the question is; who will make those rules?

I really have a high level of pessimism with democrats these days with the government themselves having fossil fuel companies that are not regulated. I mean I don’t think they will regulate themselves.

however, the only way you make the most money is by exploiting the environment, creating carbon emission through production

Not always. Some capitalist make money by selling eco-friendly stuff.

big companies has already monopolize the market to make it impossible for the smaller businesses (like small restaurants and other shops) to thrive

That why we need government to have some control over the market.

@Evelyn
creator
18d

however, the only way you make the most money is by exploiting the environment, creating carbon emission through production

the most money. exploiting trees, fossil fuels. plastic is the most profitable.

in that regard capitalism hasn’t supplied us with enough eco-friendly products. unfortunately. and they know we need those stuff. for an example; gas, water, concrete, phones, and other electronics. Even Fairphone (Eco Phone company) is really struggling because most other vendor for parts aren’t from recycled materials.

Democratic governments is unfit and has failed consistently to create a better market for the environment. for the same reason. No matter how much they say they’re fighting for the ecosystem. they’re gonna go as far as they can benefit themselves, because they’re the ones who indulge in the profits. you’ll have to change the system from the bottom up because the ones who suffer and has motive to change is the people. we could work together to fix the environment. this is our only hope.

as much as I want to criticize the government and also billionaires. I don’t think we should discuss about them as there’s not much possibility of them changing their ways.

@ajz
28d

as much as I want to criticize the government and also billionaires. I don’t think we should discuss about them as there’s not much possibility of them changing their ways.

There are some options still. For example : https://nltimes.nl/2021/05/26/hague-court-orders-shell-cut-emissions-45-percent-first-its-kind-ruling And I think for example Greta Thunberg has managed to make at least a few politicians think different. And we can do our own thing, use solar cells, choose wisely for an energy supplying company, plant plants and flowers for bees (who are dying because of human mistakes : pesticides), not take an airplane to close by destinations, using a bike or public transport instead of joining the crowded car masses, but we can also be vocal when communicating with family, friends, colleagues, trespassers and so on and so forth.

@Evelyn
creator
2
edit-2
8d

yep, this is exactly what I had decided to do just recently; doing my own part. but I’m still thinking of making a local community to maybe start my own little revolution.

edit: So It’s proven to be a bit impactful. maybe we should try do more public speech.

People turn greta down because they think that she’s all talk and no action. people’s argument against greta is they think that she is an “environmental celebrity” and the problem is the people who doesn’t change their ways, which is true, but they don’t also mention that the root of the cause is capitalism. the typical internet just want to turn people down, even though It’s just a kid. if we had someone who has proof that they have done their best for the environment, set a good example as a leader of his own environmental community. maybe people (and politicians) will try listening more.

use solar cells

If you really care about the environment, you should use nuclear energy.

exploiting trees, fossil fuels. plastic is the most profitable

Maybe in some counties, but in Europe eco-friendly stuff is way more profitable.

in that regard capitalism hasn’t supplied us with enough eco-friendly products. unfortunately. and they know we need those stuff. for an example; gas, water, concrete, phones, and other electronics. Even Fairphone (Eco Phone company) is really struggling because most other vendor for parts aren’t from recycled materials.

Actually it is just because price will be very high. No one company wants to make a phone for such small audience.

Democratic governments is unfit and has failed consistently to create a better market for the environment

Democratic government? Do you know what does democracy is? Democracy is the rule of the people. If people don’t need something, democratic governments won’t make this.

@Evelyn
creator
17d

It’s great that countries in Europe is more conscious about the environment than anywhere. but in order for us to change our trajectory on climate change. we need more serious change here and everywhere else where they don’t do much for the environment.

that’s what you get with capitalism, no one wants to make it if It isn’t profitable, It’s also not that the audience is small, most of us has the desire to be eco-friendly, and deep inside I know everyone doesn’t want to ruin the environment but some just feel hopeless and give up action because they think there’s no point.

Democrats do what they want to do. we only choose who to lead and nothing else. their choices are theirs, not ours. democrats shouldn’t have an opinion yet we have no control over the bombings, deforestation, local wars, coal minings and many unjust choices that we, the people do not want. where I am atm they even steal people’s tax money. and I’ve seen more local people help with the environment.

It’s hard to make eco-capitalism a real thing because It has too much flaws. even if It’s possible you have to have all conditions met. the government has to aim for humanity as their goal. not for money, status or power. and also on top of that put the people over anything else; we have an opinion and they have to listen. in the end, you’ll probably better off ending capitalism anyway in the long run because It’s difficult to maintain it. capitalism is the illusion of freedom, you can win alone, or suffer along billions of people in that same system.

@soferman
-3
edit-2
6d

I feel people forget that socialism has historically been dependent on huge and rampant industrialization. Capitalism isn’t the root of anything itself, it’s just an analysis of economic principles.

A green change is done by a change of values and conceptions of how things should be, the will to follow through and well thought out policies that make effective and long-lasting gains to the environment.

If the political will for it exists or can be created I think we can do nearly anything. But a change has to be done now, not later. We are in 2021 damn it, and we have only 9 years to follow up the climate accords. So change must happen now

Why is every Lemmy community so damn political? Can’t we just focus on the topic at hand?

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