Get the browser that fights for your privacy.
www.dothq.co
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Dot Browser is a privacy-conscious web browser with smarts built-in for protection against trackers and advertisements online.

New gecko based browsers are rare nowadays but this one is especially unique to me because it is more than just “firefox with tweaks” like a lot of the ones I’ve come across. The UI is different, it’s working on custom settings, a new more powerful sidebar, a new theming system, and potentially IPFS/Dat support further down the line. It’s very early in development but it’s still impressive as it is.

@sinewyshadow
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22M

I love Dot browser! They aren’t releasing as often, but they usually release nightly builds every day. I’m guessing a big release is gonna be coming up soon?

@SirLotsaLocks
creator
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12M

Yeah I think a major release is coming. I think they’re working on making the browser more unique and polished before having an official release.

@lorabe
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105M

Unfortunately the website doesn’t even show the UI… for a browser that is focused on looks and privacy, that is a rookie mistake.

SeerLite
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35M

Can’t even install it because the dot binary conflicts with a Gimp dependency :/

when i try to run it, it says that i need to install glibc but when i run sud0 apt install glibc it d0esnt find it. uwu

@SirLotsaLocks
creator
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35M

I asked the devs and they said it might have something to do with them compiling on the latest ubuntu because then it can break on older ubuntu versions as well as some older distros in general. That’s good to know.

@AgreeableLandscape
admin
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Similar problem. I’m on Fedora, have my package manager’s latest version of gcc, and it says version 'GLIBCXX_3.4.29' not found

ysu
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15M

Install build-essentials and gcc

@Lowey
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15M

What’s with the 1337 language?

keyboard broken

@lorabe
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35M

I thought you just had style…

1 d0 , 1 5w34R

grtcdr
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25M

very aesthetic browser :)

@Echedenyan
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twitter

discord

github

bad performance in main website which is very simple

SeerLite
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55M

Hey, at least they got a Matrix link too

@Zerush
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It seems interesting, I am still looking for a second browser. So far I reject those with the Gecko engine, since they are all forks with Mozilla, whose respect for privacy is as nefarious as that of Google that finances them (see TOS and Mozilla’s Privacy policy) I’m going to take a look at this one and put it on my list, but I’m still going to wait a bit until it comes out of alpha.

Mozilla and google are nothing like each other. Stop spreading FUD.

@Zerush
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-35M

Error, no FUD, nothing more than entering in the Mozilla page, they give you an Alphabet Inc tracker, among others, if you do not block it. Mozilla has economic relationship with Google, as is easily verifiable.

so what browser do you use? like @SeerLite@lemmy.ml said Mozilla Firefox is about as removed from google as you can get while still using web this side of the millennium.

@AgreeableLandscape
admin
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25M

Mozilla Firefox is about as removed from google as you can get while still using web this side of the millennium

Simple! Get a Mac and use Safari. Mac is certified Unix so it’s way better than that knockoff Linux! /s

Werwolf
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15M

Safari is using blink, google’s web engine. The only alternative is Mozilla’s Gecko. So we must support it. I hope that there was more alternative because I believe in web engine freedom, but rn our only option is Firefox.

Safari uses webkit unless they changed something big recently, but since blink is a fork of webkit it’s still very similar compared to firefox and gecko.

@Zerush
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Blink isn’t a fork of WebKit, it’s a improvement of WebKit, like WebKit is a improvement of KHTML from KDE. Gecko was a trademark of Netscape, first called NGLayout and was adopted by Mozilla in 1998 until today. The underlying problem is that there has not been a development of a new engine for 20 years and all the ones that were there have fallen by the wayside, because they cannot adapt to new web formats. The only ones left, aside from some rudimentary engines in the Text Browsers, are Blink, Gecko, and perhaps a while longer WebKit, before becoming completely obsolete. Safari is already in the benchmarks in performance and compatibility with IE.

Werwolf
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15M

Webkit uses blink

@Zerush
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15M

???, no, what’s more, Apple requires browser developers to use WebKit in order to be included in the Apple repository. This is why many browser developers who use Blink or Gecko have a lot of difficulties to change their browser for Apple. Apple does not want to lose its monopoly of Safari on its platform, a practice that will cost them dearly sooner or later, as it is a very limited platform in functionality.

Werwolf
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15M

You’re right, Apple requires browser to use WebKit on their platform.

What I said tho, is that WebKit takes a lot of their code from blink. Blink was created as a WebKit fork. As you probably know, maintaining a modern web engine requires a lot of effort. What WebKit does to keep itself updated is to get the code from Blink removing chromium specific parts. So at the end, WebKit is only a reduced version of chromium.

@Echedenyan
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25M

Blink is a fork of some WebKit components + V8 JS engine.

I never saw that “backporting” from Blink to WebKit but the opposite.

I would not deny that some backport in the opposite way could exist but WebKit is main and independent development.

In CSS, is even more up-to-date than Blink in some features. I dont have a list here but I could check it from first hand when making first course of WebDev between last GNOME Web VS last Chromium.

@Zerush
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Certainly WebKit is independent of Blink, but I do not know if you can talk about development, there is not a WebKit v.1.0, 2…0 …, nor is there for other engines, what I see is that it patches certain deficiencies that appear, but a real development I have not seen anyone get into these swamps, due to the complexity of these engines, the most complicated part of a browser.

What if I have seen that many engines have disappeared over time, precisely because of this problem, leaving practically only Blink, Gecko and WebKit, apart from some exotics that do not finish leaving the experimental phase for 15 years and some rudimentary that use the Text Browsers, such as Lynx and others.

Who will win the race is also evident, it will be Blink, since it is the engine from te compañy that dominates the network by 80%, reason also because more and more browsers will pass to this engine, as did also MS with the EDGE.

Although I do not know if I consider this as something positive, apart from making life easier for web and plugin developers, by not having to deal with different formats, but on the other hand it leaves the network even more in the hands of an monopoly that is already far from its old slogan ‘Don’t be evil’

The reunification of the App Stores into a centralized one, as planned by Google, MS, Apple and Mozilla will only accelerate the process that will lead to a single engine (why there will not be many who will upload their apps in 3 different formats, today there are already more extensions in the Chrome Store than in all the other stores combined) , as much as Mozilla or Apple opposes, Mozilla, why it depends economically on Google and Apple, why its Safari will become the new IE Meme

@Zerush
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Yes, all motors are FOSS, but the update are patches. You can review all the code (script~2Gb for WebKit) and analyse it before you are retired? The updates for this are adons, to patch some security and compatibility holes, not a real improvement, which requires a lot of recources and developers.

@Echedenyan
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no releases and no real changes

Gib source code tracker with releases and real changes

still no releases and real changes

???

For real, I dont know if you are memeing or what. The worse thing is that in WebKit port to GTK they even have a blog in which they speak about the changes in WebKit and is deeply known that there was a big API change and way that the engine works between WebKit 1.x and WebKit 2.x for which they had to adapt the port. And this is just a little thing inside all of this.

Still you say that there are no true releases nor changes. Wtf.

@Zerush
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15M

So I don’t understand why Safari and others with WebKit perform so poorly compared to Gecko and Blink.

@Echedenyan
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15M

The first thing is V8 and SpiderMonkey VS JavaScriptCore.

@Zerush
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15M

You say it, that Apple will have to use Blink. As I said before, if WebKit had no limitations, no one would have bothered to develop Blink many years ago. Now the developers have enormous difficulties in implementing the functionalities that they have in their corresponding Blink and Gecko browsers, in WebKit so that Apple accepts them.

@Echedenyan
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15M

I never said that WebKit should be replaced by Blink…

@Zerush
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No, but nevertheless I think that sooner or later there will be no other than the WebKit browsers going to Blink.

@Zerush
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Well, more or less, but this practice can be carried on for a season. If Apple does not want to stay on the road, it has to get off the podestal and once and for all accept that WebKit has its limitations, no matter how much they patch it. As I said before, until the old IE almost equals in performance with Safari, while developers look black trying to get a browser for iOS that has a minimum of functionality. Vivaldi’s small team has been trying for several years to get an iOS browser out of the alpha phase, because many of its functionalities do not work in WebKit. Not for nothing has WebKit been forked and improved to create Blink, this work, due to the complexity of a render engine, nobody does, if it was not necessary already at that time. But Apple is Apple, more important design than functionality, design can be charged more expensive.

How much do the wheels of your car cost?

SeerLite
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75M

If you can’t use Gecko because Mozilla is financed by Google, and also can’t use Blink because it’s developed by Google, with what browser engine does that leave you?

Also aren’t you the person who recommends Vivaldi a lot? Vivaldi is a Blink/Chromium, which is developed by Google. I’d rather use the engine Google has less control over

@AgreeableLandscape
admin
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Vivaldi is also proprietary. Seems hypocritical to not even consider Firefox because Mozilla while recommending closed source code.

Like, I don’t particularly like what Mozilla has been doing either, but to say it’s as bad as Google is a massive exaggeration. Google once stole Americans’ healthcare data and got off away scott free.

@Zerush
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It is a common mistake to think that FOSS = Privacy and Security, is not more or less than any other software, the purpose of FOSS is another (All the APIs of Google, Facebook, Amazon and others are FOSS and included in many of the other OpenSource apps). The privacy and TOS of each software is governed by the legislation of the countries of origin, so it is always advisable to read them carefully. In European products, such as Vivaldi (Iceland) and others, for example the French browser UR, the European regulations regarding privacy and conditions of use are valid, regulations that do not exist or only poorly in American or Chinese products, such as Opera. But this does not help me, if I use a browser, created in the EU, such as SeaMonkey, when it uses US servers to synchronize the data, those from Google or Mozilla. Besides, Google has removed Chromium Browsers’ ability to use Google servers for sync, forcing them to use their own servers (Vivaldi always had them), but all FF forks continue to use Mozilla’s servers.

SeerLite
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25M

Ok but it’s still worse because it isn’t FOSS. The argument you always repeat about “FOSS doesn’t mean it’s private!” does not change the fact that FOSS makes it more trustworthy. That’s a fact you can’t change.

No one is claiming FOSS automatically makes something more private. FOSS means you can read the source code and verify it. That’s literally all there is to it. And it’s not some kind of secret or anything, it’s just the definition of FOSS.

The privacy and TOS of each software is governed by the legislation of the countries of origin, so it is always advisable to read them carefully.

I’d still rather use the software that’s FOSS. I’m not even using any of the features which may give Mozilla any data like Sync.

If Vivaldi is so great and private because it’s an European product, the more reason to make it FOSS. The point of FOSS is to be able to verify what the program is doing. If Vivaldi is so private then why isn’t it FOSS so I can check? You have no argument against that apart from “FOSS isn’t always good” which isn’t really an argument against FOSS.

@Zerush
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-25M

It is not because of the forks, which surely have nothing to do with Google, but because of the synchronization problem, in the case of FF and forks, if they use Mozilla servers, that if it is related to Google. Vivaldi has its own servers for synchronization, end2end encryption and, although it carries Google APIs by default, it allows the user to deactivate them in the configuration, if they do not need/want them. This is what is not possible in Mozilla, which is financed with Google APIs, which in Vivaldi is not the case. Like Mozilla, it has income from sponsors, whose links and search engines are present in the default browser (none of them from Google), but it allows the user to remove them if they do not use them. This is the difference. It does not have to do if it is Blink, Gecko or even WebKit, there is no more to choose from, since no one has developed a new engine in 20 years, because it is the most complex part of a browser and of those there is, Blink works best with new web formats, because of this is the most used, include MS now use Blink. Dot Browser can be a good alternative, but only if it use own servers for Sync.

Bilb!
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You can host your own Sync server or disable it if it bothers you.

https://github.com/mozilla-services/syncserver

They even provide a script here to delete data already uploaded to Mozilla’s server.

@Echedenyan
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25M

https://linux.pizza provides independent sync server.

Werwolf
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25M

I never use Sync, you can’t trust anyone. I use self hosted xbrowsersync.

Blink is developed by Google, which is way worse than being financed by Google. At least you aren’t giving Google more market share. The worst thing that could happen to the internet is a Google web monopoly with blink (and chromium).

Btw vivaldi has been proved to be invasive with user privacy. It’s proprietary software, so if you really want privacy you should avoid it at all costs.

I believe in web engine diversity and right now the only option that we have is Gecko so we have to support Mozilla, even if it’s making some wrong decisions, it’s still way better than Google which is the biggest advertising corporation on earth.

@Zerush
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05M

Any monopoly is wrong, but this is irrelevant in matters of the engine, as is also irrelevant who developed which engine or browser code, TOR and the Onion network was developed by the US defense and the NSA. The problem is much more complex and is to avoid the interference in our lives of large monopolies and develop techniques that can deal with them, the code used does not matter, if it does not carry the APIs that include Google, Facebook, MS or Others unrelated. It does not help me if I have to pay for my own server whose reliability I do not know or have to install my own server, which I also do not have, to get away from Google, Mozilla or any other American or Chinese server in the case of Opera. An exotic browser with an experimental engine that does not work on half of the pages I visit is also useless. I am served by an encrypted and secure and reliable synchronization that does not belong to any large company, but to a European cooperative, which even coincides with my political beliefs regarding the organization. I have other browsers, even FF forks, but these I use without sync and I have tried practically all existing browsers and I have stayed with Vivaldi for a simple reason, it is by far the most advanced and best I have ever tried, apart from the reasons that I mentioned before.

@pinknoise
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I am served by an encrypted and secure and reliable synchronization

How do you know it’s encrypted and secure if you can’t look at the sourcecode?

@Zerush
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5M

You can proof it. If your lost your password, you can’t recover your data, because Vivaldi don’t has access to your password, nor at your data, that is the price of privacy. Not like in other sites with the option to recover your password. Apart in which server you can see it’s source code? The part of closed source in Vivaldi is refered to the UI and not user related. Vivaldi knows in which country I am, the OS I use and the version of Vivaldi I use, same statistic data which colect also FF, no privat data nor browser history or tracking, like Chrome, Edge or Opera. A good tool for test websites is Blacklight, you can add it also to your search engine list https://themarkup.org/blacklight?url=%s

@pinknoise
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You can proof it. If your lost your password, you can’t recover your data

That would only verify, that the data they sent you on that first request was encrypted with your password. And that only if you monitor the requests being made.

Apart in which server you can see it’s source code?

You can’t verify that the correct binary and/or script is running and that the server isn’t compromised thats true. Thats why people design “zero trust” applications. If you only ever send cyphertext to the server it can’t read anything without the key. If vivaldi was open source you could easily verify that that’s the case. Because it’s closed source you are forced to reverse engineer their binary if you want to be sure. Their EULA forbids this.

@Zerush
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15M

5% of the code referring to the UI is protected, the rest is OpenSource and everything is open for auditing. There is nothing hidden regarding privacy or user. What’s more, the modification of these codes by the user is even tolerated and explained in detail in the forum, where there is a sub-forum about it. Precisely Jon von Tetzchner, the founder of the Vivaldi cooperative and certainly not a stranger, has made his opinion very clear about the practices used by Google and the tracking of users, which he totally rejects.

@pinknoise
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15M

5% of the code referring to the UI is protected

Why?

everything is open for auditing

No it is not. They try to disallow you from doing it in their EULA, even though they know that you are absolutely free to do so in many legislations. (“except as permitted by applicable law”)

the founder of the Vivaldi cooperative […] has made his opinion very clear about the practices used by Google and the tracking of users, which he totally rejects.

Maybe you could ask him about his opinion on the shady companies they do business with?

@Zerush
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Certainly Vivaldi is financed by different sponsors and search providers, whose links are included by default in Vivaldi, but all of these can be eliminated in the configuration if you don’t want them, just like Google’s APIs. See which other browsers allow you to do this, Mozilla? Regarding the protected part of Vivaldi, whose modifications are expressly tolerated by Vivaldi. What is not allowed to use it for other foreign browsers. For the user himself there is only the private rule ‘Do what you want with Vivaldi’.

https://jon.vivaldi.net/dont-let-monopolists-call-the-shots-save-the-internet/#more-40966

SeerLite
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25M

It is not because of the forks, which surely have nothing to do with Google,

But you are claiming Firefox forks are related to Mozilla. That’s what I’m basing my response on.

in the case of FF and forks, if they use Mozilla servers, that if it is related to Google.

What if they don’t use Mozilla servers? Privacy browsers like LibreWolf have all that stuff stripped away.

This is the difference. It does not have to do if it is Blink, Gecko or even WebKit,

If that was your point you should have stated that before. Your previous comment only says:

So far I reject those with the Gecko engine, since they are all forks with Mozilla,

which makes no sense because forks don’t have to contact Mozilla if they want to.

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