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@nutomic
admin
131M

Here is a nice illustration that explains the roots of the conflict:

It continues here

Also interesting, a comparison of the number of deaths between Palestinians and Israelis. Makes it clear that its not as simple as “both sides are at fault”.

@Gwynne
creator
5
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Dessalines
admin
81M

The goal for Israel is the same as that of the US: a complete takeover of indigeous Palestinean lands and eradication of the existing population.

@roastpotatothief
0
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IIRC the idea is that all of the holy lands should belong to the jews. There is a description somewhere in the bible, and it includes a big chunk of iraq and other countries. Israel wants to reclaim all these lands for the jews, that the bible says once belonged to them.

That’s why they settled/invaded there in the first place, though they were actually offered other lands to built their jewish state on.

It’s complicated. Here is a more detailed version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel

Here some israel propaganda against the anti israel propaganda (which the very suggestiv map is) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJYl54oL02Q

@uthredii
101M

Israel is illegally occupying certain regions that according to the UN should not be in their control source.

Palestinians living in these occupied areas are often evicted from their homes so that an Israeli family can take the home instead.

These evictions often cause protests. Protesters are often violently attacked by the Israeli police and a few days ago the police attacked a Mosque (the third most holy site in Islam).

@TheAnonymouseJoker
8
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1M

Okay I have a long term Palestine friend, directly from a good source, long conversation

The long username is me asking, the shorter one is theirs

spoiler

Which idiot downvoted a directly sourced conversation from ground zero? This is what discourages content contribution.

That’s a good point, why israel is really going after iran lately. If iran is the only territory substantially opposing israel’s expansion.

@uthredii
11M

I cannot see anything of the picture, it is too small. Is there a way it ca be made bigger?

Open the picture URL in browser directly. Will be zoomable and readable fully.

@yogthos
31M

Israel is doing ethnic cleansing in Palestine.

@soferman
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@Gwynne
creator
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@soferman
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@jelbana
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This is incorrect, this is not an impossible situation with “no good side”, but one of settler colonialism and apartheid enabled by support from Western powers (chiefly the US). Israel is an ethno-nationalist state based on the ideology of displacing its Palestinian population and perserving a Jewish ruling majority over the territory it controls. Over 700 000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from their homes in 1947-1948. Since then Israel has denied the right of return of refugees and has continued to ethnically cleanse land within Israeli borders and in land illegally occupied since 1967 (East Jerusalem, West Bank & Golan Heights). All of which are violations of international law and are also violations of multiple UN resolutions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Palestinian_exodus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n02/nathan-thrall/the-separate-regimes-delusion

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/opinion/israel-palestinian-refugees-right-of-return.html

https://mondoweiss.net/2021/05/this-isnt-a-civil-war-it-is-settler-colonial-brutality/

@uthredii
21M

I would say the civilians that are being bombed to death have clean hands (figuratively) but that’s just me.

poVoq
2
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1M

Except that there is a large popular support for Hamas, which has all but clean hands.

I guess this will get downvoted a lot, but as much as I have sympathies for the Palestinian cause there are also undeniable facts that make this a less clear cut case.

@uthredii
61M

Hamas is a resistance force in occupied territory. I definitely do not support everything they believe or do. but do you really expect that resistance against an occupying power would not be supported?

The fact is that Israel has much more advanced weaponry so they have much less to fear. Palestine and Hamas have no incentive to escalate because they get massacred every time. Israel needs to escalate because their goal is to drive the Palatines from the region, they must do this before they loose favor with the US.

poVoq
0
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1M

Yet Hamas very much has a political incentive to escalate. While not fully comparable, they, similar to the Israeli hardliners, have made profitable political careers out of this never ending conflict.

The Palestinians have every right to defend themselves, but shooting unguided missiles into civilian neighborhoods (which Hamas does regularly) has exactly one purpose: to escalate.

Dessalines
admin
51M

If someone is stabbing you, no one should be blaming you for defending yourself. This is the kind of “both sides” argument you see western media use to defend their main stronghold / military base in the middle east. They give Israel a pass on murdering and evicting as many Palestineans as they can, and the minute those Palestinians resist, “they’ve got blood on their hands”.

poVoq
21M

I don’t disagree, but it is still a fact that Hamas does a lot more bad stuff then just defending the Palestinian population.

@Gwynne
creator
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@uthredii
41M

The solution is sanctions for Israel for violating human rights and international law.

@soferman
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@soferman
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