Please boycott Brave
44

Didn’t know where to post this, so hopefully this is the right spot. Please boycott Brave. I’ve recently learned that not only is their CEO bad, but their fanbase is toxic, too. I will no longer be using Brave for that reason.

@AgreeableLandscape
admin
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If you want a good all around browser, Firefox.

If you don’t like Mozilla either (which is fair), GNU Icecat, Fennec F-Droid, etc.

If you absolutely need Chromium, Ungoogled Chromium.

Based and FOSS privacy pilled

@uthredii
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I don’t really agree that Brave should not be used because of a toxic fanbase.

I think the best reason not to use Brave is that they are a marketing/advertising company that claims to give their users privacy. Advertising companies will always have an incentive to invade privacy as it increase add revenues. Brave is just copying Google’s business model with extra steps.

Brave Browser is funded by DoD: https://np.reddit.com/r/privatelife/comments/fe34ls/exclusive_brave_browser_funded_by_dod_contractor/

Brave traffic detected with Cryptocompare despite BAT rewards disabled: https://removeddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/gr8nue/

Brave also has a known history of whitelisting Facebook and Twitter trackers, and has a crippled adblocker that does not work on Brave’s “acceptable” advertisements.

Brave Browser hardcoded their crypto partner Binance referral links (https://twitter.com/cryptonator1337/status/1269201480105578496) alongwith Ledger and soon-to-be-compromised Coinbase (https://decrypt.co/31461/coinbase-wants-to-identify-bitcoin-users-for-dea-irs)

@AgreeableLandscape
admin
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toxic fanbase.

Case in point, the replies in this thread lol.

@blank_sl8
181M

I love the idea of microdonations to websites you visit, rather than ads, but Brave and the people behind it are trying obnoxiously hard to make money. There should be a truly grassroots, open source project that does the same thing.

Wouldn’t donating to a site’s Patreon/Liberapay/Cryptocurrency address/etc be more effective?

@blank_sl8
11M

Yes, but I think the whole point of Brave is to automatically handle these donations. I don’t want to have to search for a Bitcoin address every time I read a blog post.

I’m sure you could make a firefox plugin that does the same thing.

Just log how much time you spend on each website, then when you pass a threshold, say 2hr, ask you to send money, say 2euro. Then when there is enough money in the website’s pot, say 200euro, they email the website owner and ask them to make a libera account to collect the money.

I think that’s all brave does anyway.

@AgreeableLandscape
admin
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Seems like a really easy way to scam well intentioned website goers though. Are we sure Brave is actually sending the money over?

Yes. It would need to be trustworthy, have a good reputation (so not brave).

If it uses bitcoin, then the money can be traced directly. If set up right, there would be no way to scam people without them noticing immediately.

This could be a very good business idea. To make it profitable, just do yourself what you are doing for websites: “you’ve been using the fuckyoupayme app for 12 months and supported websites with 200euro so far. Please donate us devs 24euro.”

Invisível
11M

coil.com does that…

Does Librewolf suport Firefox extentions?

Halce
141M

Yes.

@Magolor
161M

Tbh I never trusted brave. Firefox with addons is also great fro privacy. Yes, somettimes Mozilla is doing some iffy things, but it is still better than Brave.

@ajz
141M

16 downvotes ! We’re doomed. It’s a Brave New World !

One person is responsible for derailing this thread, and the lelion army or people agreeing with his robotic POV are the 19 people.

@k_o_t
admin
61M

/r/angryupvote

@Nevar
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deleted by creator

manemjeff
91M

Elaborate please? I’m here just for the open source project

jonuno
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The more you dig the weirder it gets.

They are selling an idea of a better browsing which honestly I bought into it (monetising attention is still a great thing to me) but in practicality it is just benefiting Brave.

The user experience I had was horrible, from not getting it to work, to seek for help in their community and being met with disdain… “Oh I never thought I’d see the day that people would complain of not getting adverts”… well that’s the narrative you are selling isn’t it? I agree to watch ads in turn to redistribute that attention to my fav creators.

They are pulling users in through all these different nice ethical values: privacy focused browsers, a fairer economy to creators, being paid for you attention… utopic in all the ways. In practice, they are pulling the biggest number of users and investors through crypto greed.

But above all this was what personally got me out of it - just reflecting on the whole thing:

When you start using brave, you will block ads (which definetly get you a better browsing experience) but you are cutting the revenue from the creators, like all adblocking does. What brave is purposing is that you have the option to watch ads but not those you are blocking! They select ones that are ‘relevant to you’ - which are their partners… win win for them. And in turn you get BAT… so you take away the potential money from the creators to your wallet. Hum…

But still, even if you are in for the greed, the story it’s not really like that- yes it is slowly filling your uphold wallet (if you get it to work, because that’s another problem… if you don’t, guess where the money is sitting - with brave!) and then you can spread through your creators (again - if you can get it to work, and only for the ones that are affiliated w brave or else you can’t). So it’s all Brave’s territory isn’t it?

And in mobile you can’t connect your uphold wallet until you reach 25bat of credit - which will take you a year of normal use even getting ~20ads a day. (They get a 20% cut). So all this promise of content creators being paid in a fairer way, turns out that you are spending your attention watching adverts that are only benefiting brave.

In practice you will diverting ad revenue from creators to brave while you think you are making money, or worst, making the internet a better place. Nah. Fuck Brave.

TL;DR: in practice Brave cuts creators stream of revenue (ads) and replaces them with Brave’s partner ads that after watched by you Brave takes a share and then are converted into Brave’s cryptocoin and held on Brave’s side until you follow Brave’s rules.

PS: you can also find dirt on Firefox. Our consumerism is a form of vote. Choose wisely, do your homework.

manemjeff
31M

At this point, I don’t care as long as it’s open sourced and it’s good to me to use. Hell, lemmy is made by communist which I am very opposed of (I really like capitalism with socialism safety net more). Political views and shit like that doesn’t budge me anymore from using the product. Maybe I would value more in the way they treat their product, like microsoft’s way of handling their open source project as a way to EEE.

In this comment I explain most of my issues with Brave.

@Nevar
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Dreeg Ocedam
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JS is by far the worst language I have ever used besides PHP, and yes, I tend to avoid JS a lot given how Much it is used for tracking (though disabling it entirely breaks most webaites.).

Also, as said in the other comment, using JS doesn’t give Brendan Eich any money so I’m not concerned about that.

JS is by far the worst language I have ever used besides PHP

I’d argue that while PHP may be worse on a technical level, JS is a worse overall ecosystem because if you develop for the web, you’re forced to use it.

@Nevar
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I don’t understand what you mean by that.

@Nevar
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Brendan Eich is by no mean a celebrity for having invented JS. I had never heard of him before Brave.

@Nevar
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@levity
61M

Clearly there are many things you fail to realise

@Nevar
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SeerLite
11M

Well that’s certainly one way to miss the point lmaooo

@Nevar
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You realise the guy created JavaScript eh?

You’ll find that it’s one of the most hated programming languages around here. People say (with good reason) that its implementation is terrible compared to other programming languages, and its over-adoption (being used when it’s unnecessary) is commonly accused of being a major factor of the badly performing and resource hungry websites of the modern internet. It also enables the vast majority of invasive tracking tactics.

As another user also mentioned, it’s a logical fallacy to directly compare a product that has clear alternatives, like brave, and a product that everyone is practically forced to use, like JavaScript, when talking about disliking the creator of those things.

Finally, as far as I know, Brendan Eich is no longer involved with the development of the JavaScript language standards, but he’s currently the CEO of Brave.

@Nevar
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@robb
91M

Using JavaScript doesn’t put money in his pocket, using Brave does.

@Nevar
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SeerLite
41M

permanent

You proved the point yourself. Not using javascript isn’t gonna change a thing.

Also no one really thinks about that guy when they hear javascript lmao

@Nevar
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SeerLite
21M

You haven’t refuted anything since my point was in the first sentence I wrote, not the second one.

@Nevar
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It’s an appeal to hypocrisy. “But what about JavaScript!?”, while completely ignoring the vast world of differences between what has became an essential web technology over the last 25 or so years (not always loved by everyone), versus a gimmicky web browser.

@Nevar
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You’re going to great lengths to try to find some way to defend a piece of shit human being. You can stop at any time, but I’m sure you’ll keep going. I hope you manage to find the bottom of the hole you’re so vigorously trying to find, hopefully you’ll find it before you realize how dumb you’re presenting yourself as being.

@Nevar
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You’re acting quite emotional calling Brendan Eich a piece of shit human being without ever having read his arguments or listened to him speak.

His homophobia is very well documented and yes, with direct quotes of what he said. Do those not count as hearing his arguments?

Plenty of horrible people, from Trump to Hitler, had moments of making valid points in some areas, but none of those moments should detract from the fact that they are horrible people with horrible beliefs and actions.

I believe you’re apart of the “woke” mob, that piles on people before reading up on them and making your own judgement. Ie. You seem to be a victim of cancel culture.

Lol, mob? Not wanting to use a browser owned by homophobic counts as a mob? I’ve also never gotten the outrage with this thing called “cancel culture” with things like these. Are people not allowed to dislike known homophobic covid deniers?

@Nevar
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@AgreeableLandscape
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You’re moving the goalposts here. We’re talking about using an open source browser or not because of the founder’s personal religious views, not whether they are Hitler or Trump.

Religious views are personal views. Hating non-Germans or non-Americans are also personal views. What’s your point?

Yes mob, suggest looking up what it means in this context.

Merriam Webster says it means “a large and disorderly crowd of people; especially one bent on riotous or destructive action.” When were we destroying or rioting? We don’t have street rallies against the use of Brave either.

Unless you meant the informal definition, "a large number of people ", which means you’re just trying to demonize the large number of people who dislike a homophobe by using that word. So is any movement to boycott anything a mob? Are vegans a mob? Nestle/BP/Amazon/Facebook haters? What about people campaigning for a ban on fossil fuels? What about the people who were against the Iraq or Vietnam Wars?

And yes, cancel culture is a really really dangerous development in western civilization that threatens our ability to survive because it’s focus is on distracting from class consciousness. Not sure why you’re defending it if you’re a socialist.

Because as not just a socialist but a person in the 21st century, I’m very much for human rights being given to people of the LGBTQ+ community?

I don’t like the guy and therefore won’t use his company’s product, plain and simple. I have not harassed him or otherwise taken any action to harm him. I don’t know of anyone, on or off this platform, who have done that either. I also dislike Musk and therefore Teslas aren’t on my list of cars that I might buy. Am I not allowed to have those opinions because they’re cancel culture?

@Nevar
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@nerdyguy1990
creator
-11M

I made a post on r/browsers over on reddit and someone said to go back to firefox, they are wokies like me. Plus a couple other comments as well.

@Zerush
21M

I use Vivaldi, great and nice community and a great and well known CEO, Jon von Tetzchner, who had created the Islandic cooperative Vivaldi. Privacy oriented and the most advanced Browser today

@iliya
11M

After listening to his podcast with Lex Fridman I’ve gotta say, I like this guy. What regarding him is “bad”? I don’t use brave in favor of firefox because I prefer to block ads entirely rather than participate in a p2p creator funding token scheme. But that’s just my personal preference, I hope brave browser stays developed.

He is homophobic, so you cannot like the person himself unless you are a homophobe as well.

@Nevar
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I stopped hearing the Bloodhound Gang’s songs I had downloaded when I learned of the Asian Student Union incident they did against Chinese students in an American university. I loved those songs and I stopped hearing them even though they were downloaded.

@Nevar
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Brave does not need personal beliefs to be avoided, even its merit is dogshit as a privacy focused browser. It is a crypto malware scam.

@ree
-21M

I don’t enjoy Michael Jackson music anymore since I learned he is a pedo and find outrageous those song are still widely broadcasted.

@Nevar
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@Nevar
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@AgreeableLandscape
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Major distinction: A scientist is not the CEO of the theories they develop, and the use of those theories does not directly benefit them. Plus, almost everyone in that list are dead so they wouldn’t benefit in any way. Compare that to the current CEO of brave being an ass, and the fact that use of the Brave browser directly benefits his company, which he has a direct stake in.

When he is kicked completely off the Brave corporate ladder, the attitudes toward that organization is likely to change, but that’s probably not happening any time in the near future.

@Nevar
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@Nevar
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verassol
21M

What’s the problem with emotions though? Do you believe emotion can be easily separated from most statements? Isn’t one of the main problems with tech in our times that it’s manipulating emotions? A sense of invasion that prompts a need for privacy does not involve emotion? A sense of justice for user freedom does not involve emotion? Emotions are pervasive and subtle, this trend of preferring the emotionless option over the one that shows emotion weirds me. Someone who feels targeted by a homophobe feeling ‘emotional’ about it seems more than valid to me, and calling it emotional in a dismissive way is like saying that emotion is not valid/important.

@Nevar
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verassol
11M

That would be true if such “society” was ruled according to the scientific method. I agree with your premise, what I’m trying to point out is that those who actually make the calls can and will often act on emotions, and use the emotions of the population against it. They have no regard for our emotions being different. It’ s not “we” who try to separate emotions, it’s those we are in power of making that separation, and they separate not according to the scientific method but according to socio-economical interest.

@ree
11M

Or you can see it differently.

Scientific methods showed that appealing to the general instead of the particular is more widely accepted as argument in our societies.

Eg : boltanski & thevenot “de la justification”

verassol
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What are “our” societies? I live in one dominated by fundamentalist Christians.

@ree
11M

Well I’m Belgian and the book in refer to is about France.

I’m sure it can be generalised. But I don’t have any references.

@soferman
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Dreeg Ocedam
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deleted by creator

Quagmire
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removed by mod

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