They have to vilify the countries they haven’t dominated yet, or are about to dominate again. It’s part of how war works. Also the US wants the world’s resources on a silver platter and Russia has a LOT of resources.
I don’t vilify Russia as it is much more than its government. I do vilify its government and Putin - in general and especially as a gay man. I also have a strong distaste for any far right ideology. I don’t understand why people seem to defend Putin so much.
I think it’s mainly reactionary. I think people feel the “western” world is so beyond corrupt that any leader that isn’t part of it can’t be all that bad.
I agree. I know, this reply took a while. I was excited to join lemmy, as although I am not a believer in pure “communism”, i do lean progressively left. And I enjoyed it here for a long time…when the Russia/Ukraine war broke out…I got discouraged with all this pro-Putin posts…and it was obvious, if I tried to voice an opinion (like current Russia is absolutely not communist, but in fact the opposite end of spectrum), i would get bad mouthed and down voted to oblivion!
Now…I understand the distaste to the West and especially the Us (i live in a US territory (PR), I understand the US behaves badly…on a very personal level even!) But that doesn’t mean every foe of the US is automatically good! Two opposing people can be both bad at the same time. Sigh…
The west takes advantage of one more nutjob out there to say “see? do you really want us to cede more power to these psychos?”
But Russia isn’t like everyone else. They pulled CIA shit in Belarus, and they invaded Ukraine with no real justification. They’re just murdering Ukranians because Putin wants to be taken more seriously, or doesn’t like the idea of Nato having too much power in general and wants to swing his dick around to say “I’m too powerful, too.”
And even if you want to pretend that the US is just as bad as Russia… The west villifies the US all the time, we’re widely regarded to suck pretty hard. Why should we pretend Putin is a saint?
And even if you want to pretend that the US is just as bad as Russia… The west villifies the US all the time, we’re widely regarded to suck pretty hard. Why should we pretend Putin is a saint?
There is no comparison between Russia and the US. Nothing Russia has ever done even begins to come close to the atrocities US is committing around the globe. War on terror alone massacred over 6 million people. US is currently facilitating a literal genocide in Yemen, and starving Afghanistan after going on a murder spree there for two decades. Comparing Russia to this is frankly laughable.
The point here is that the west has no place vilifying Russia. People in the west would do far better holding their own regimes to account rather than spending their time pointing fingers.
The US is literally murdering Syrians right now with unending sanctions that have completely crippled them. Sanctions only hurt civilians. Also the US is occupying large swaths of Syria and stealing the oil from the oil fields.
Sanctions are basically a modern version siege warfare, and their explicit intent is to harm the civilian population of the country. It’s a form of a war crime that US regime popularized.
Indeed. Come to think of it, what other country sanctions anyone that the US isn’t sanctioning? The effect would be so miniscule as to be laughable. But when the US rallies the minions it’s a devastating weapon against civilian populations.
You should open a history book yourself someday kiddo. The 6 million is just a drop in the bucket when it comes to US atrocities. The sheer amount of ignorance required to think that Russia has killed more people than US is frankly astounding. Americans massacred so many indigenous people that the global temperature cooled!
I’m really not sure why this is a competition, but here’s a short history of the jaw-dropping death Russia has always liked causing, just what I could get from a quick search:
Note that I’m counting Russian civillian and military deaths against Russia, which I probably would with the US too, but seems particularly appropriate with Russia, since their main military strategy is just "we have more people and our land is very cold. Attrition and starvation!
Let’s just see what actual research says on the subject of the famine in Ukraine. During the 1932 Holodomor Famine, the USSR sent aid to affected regions in an attempt to alleviate the famine. According to Mark Tauger in his article, The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933:
While the leadership did not stop exports, they did try to alleviate the famine. A 25 February 1933 Central Committee decree allotted seed loans of 320,000 tons to Ukraine and 240,000 tons to the northern Caucasus. Seed loans were also made to the Lower Volga and may have been made to other regions as well. Kul’chyts’kyy cites Ukrainian party archives showing that total aid to Ukraine by April 1933 actually exceeded 560,000 tons, including more than 80,000 tons of food
Some bring up massive grain exports during the famine to show that the Soviet Union exported food while Ukraine starved. This is fallacious for a number of reasons, but most importantly of all the amount of aid that was sent to Ukraine alone actually exceeded the amount that was exported at the time.
Aid to Ukraine alone was 60 percent greater than the amount exported during the same period. Total aid to famine regions was more than double exports for the first half of 1933.
According to Tauger, the reason why more aid was not provided was because of the low harvest
It appears to have been another consequence of the low 1932 harvest that more aid was not provided: After the low 1931, 1934, and 1936 harvests procured grain was transferred back to peasants at the expense of exports.
Tauger is not a communist, and ultimately this specific article takes the view that the low harvest was caused by collectivization (he factors in the natural causes of the famine in later articles, based on how he completely neglects to mention weather in this article at all its clear that his position shifted over the years). However, its interesting to see that the Soviets really did try to alleviate the famine as best as they could.
I’ll repeat this once again since you have hard time understanding basic facts. Nothing Russia has done comes even close to the atrocities US has committed and is currently committing this very day.
Also, love how you count Soviets killing nazis in WW2. Turns out you’re a nazi sympathizer as well. Not really surprising, but worth noting.
oh no, I thought you were just talking about deaths caused. I can start justifying American wars too, if you want to do that, America killed Nazis too, but its strategy wasn’t to sacrifice the meat-shields in Ukraine and then scorched earth the rest of the way until eventually launching a counter-offensive. I mean, whatever works, but damn, it was gruesome.
Meanwhile, let’s just take a look at a few things US has been responsible for in recent history
Lol, the USSR was equally involved in most of those wars, and Russia is fucking around in Syria right now too.
but yeah, nothing Russia did comes close to the proxy wars between Russia and the US.
oh no, I thought you were just talking about deaths caused
Ah, it was the Soviet Union’s fault that nazis invaded. You’re utterly deplorable.
Lol, the USSR was equally involved in most of those wars, and Russia is fucking around in Syria right now too.
It was not equally involved in those wars because it was US that chose to invade countries half way across the world. Meanwhile, the only reason Syria doesn’t look like Libya today is because Russia intervened. Imagine being such an utter ghoul to think that Syria being destroyed by US is a better outcome.
And the exact same pattern is seen in all other interventions. Vietnam and Cuba are successful socialist states today thanks to USSR. Meanwhile, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Yemen, and many other countries are hell on Earth thanks to US. That’s the difference. And the fact that you can’t see it says everything I need to know about you.
but yeah, nothing Russia did comes close to the proxy wars between Russia and the US.
I implore you to learn some history so you don’t look like a total 🤡. You’re an utter embarrassment and you don’t even realize it.
unprovoked invasion of ukraine… sigh
i guess raising an extreme right-wing ultra-nationalist (read: nazi) army that slaughtered thousands of Ukrainians in regions where they didn’t accept the coming nazification of the country, and who were running referendums to join Russia, and then being prepped for application to NATO is not provocation at all.
Tankies think it’s fine because the US has a problem with it… or because NATO exists and that justifies whatever murderous reaction Russia might engage in.
Eastern Europe : scared of Russia, want to join a defensive alliance to protect from Russia, join NATO
USA : try to normalize relation, Eastern Europe join NATO. Russia pissed because they consider Eastern Europe as part of their influence sphere.
Relation got worse because of Yugoslavia, Syria, Snowden, Russia accuses USA of every trouble in there country and their influence sphere meanwhile Russia tries to influence American elections. Also Ukraine.
EU : rely on Russian gas, so try to keep good relations but not at the expense of good relations with the USA that assure protection. Ukraine is the breaking point for relations. Used its influence to get Minsk agreement because do not like war. Russia invade Ukraine, not happy
France : had good relationship with Russia before 2014.
can say fuck you to USA because have an army. But agree with EU and USA on Ukraine because think war is not justified (they knew Irak was not justified and refused to intervene and made their best to have pacific resolution of the tensions. Usa didn’t like it and french bashing was born)
I am European and I hate what the Western bloc is doing to Russia. Not a day goes by that the TV doesn’t say something wrong about Russia.
They act like those kids who can’t take it out on the guy who messed with them, they hit their dog.
Russia has major supplies of important resources like oil, gas, metals etc. Its also a fact that Russia has its own distinct culture, which defies the us empire on the world stage.
There is also some historical background from the rivalry between orthodox religion and catolicism, but this might be less relevant today (who knows).
I think this is close to the real answer. Russia is a “threat” to world domination by the U.S.('s culture). Russia has important, critical resources and isn’t in the “american sphere of influence”. Russia also can’t be ignored or invaded like many other countries.
The “west” doesn’t hate post-soviet Russia. There are eastern European states that justifiably are afraid of them due to being colonized by them for a really long time (with the Russians in power showing no signs of remorse about that, quite the contrary) and then there are the US/UK that play their age old divide and conquer empire games.
In addition to that the current Russian Federation has developed into a mafia state that recently decided it is in their interest to invade a neighbouring country and kill a lot of innocent people, which didn’t exactly help their image.
Edit: What recent movies do you mean? I am not aware of any Russian villains in recent Marvel movies… and I think they stopped making other kinds of movies /s
In addition to that the current Russian Federation has developed into a mafia state that recently decided it is in their interest to invade a neighbouring country and kill a lot of innocent people, which didn’t exactly help their image.
Trying to imagine the amount of intellectual bankruptcy required to continue peddling this narrative with a straight face. If anything, Russia followed the precedent that NATO itself set in Yugoslavia almost to the letter. Let’s stop pretending that Russia is doing some unique evil in Ukraine or that the west played no role in creating this conflict.
China and Russia are quickly becoming allies out of necessity. They see each other as being back to back against the west. I expect there’s going to a be a similar relationship as with US and Canada in the long run. China has a much bigger population and industrial base while Russia has a lot of natural resources. It’s looking like China and Russia are also building an alternative economic framework to the west with BRICS, and it’s likely that much of the developing world will end up aligning with this bloc going forward.
I’m not doing anything of the sort. The framing you’re using implies that Russia just decided to attack Ukraine out of the blue and for no reason as opposed to having spent the past eight years trying to find a diplomatic solution with the west.
It’s incredibly dishonest to ignore all the history leading up to 2014, and NATO backed color revolution in 2014. Plenty of experts in the west have been warning about this for many years now. Here’s what Chomsky has to say on the issue recently:
50 prominent foreign policy experts (former senators, military officers, diplomats, etc.) sent an open letter to Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion back in 1997:
George Kennan, arguably America's greatest ever foreign policy strategist, the architect of the U.S. cold war strategy warned that NATO expansion was a "tragic mistake" that ought to ultimately provoke a "bad reaction from Russia" back in 1998.
Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was "the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat [...] since the Soviet Union collapsed"
These and many other voices were marginalized, silenced, and ignored. Yet, now people are trying to rewrite history and pretend that Russia attacked Ukraine out of the blue and completely unprovoked.
It’s incredibly dishonest to pretend that NATO expansion justifies the invasion of a country that isn’t a part of NATO, wasn’t planning on joining NATO, and did nothing else to provoke Russia.
The US probably shouldn’t have expanded NATO as hard as it did. None of this justifies the invasion.
What’s dishonest is claiming that Russia had to simply accept a hostile military alliance that’s been invading countries for decades expanding to its borders. It’s also a flat out lie to claim that Ukraine was not planning to join NATO. Ukrainian officials, including Zelensky, repeatedly expressed desire to join NATO.
Furthermore, Russia literally followed the precedent that NATO itself established in Yugoslavia to the letter. NATO recognized separatist regions then had them invite NATO troops as a pretext for the invasion. Russia used exactly the same justification and the international precedent that NATO created.
The Boys villifies one fictional superhero who was very much American, but was frozen in Russia. And a few other nameless Russian villains, in addition to a whole bunch of named and nameless American villains, and a few other villains around the world.
Here, if you look for the word ‘Russia’ it appears in 5 out of 8 episodes. They literally infiltrate a Russian facility, where the Russians appear as the antagonists, plus Russian characters act in other vile ways in the plot.
no, like, most countries get villified somewhere or another. The Iranian regime is under a lot of fire right now for obvious reasons. Everybody has some gripe or another with China (especially the Uyghurs). North Korea, Qatar, Brazil, Belarus, Mexico, both India and Pakistan, both India and Palestine, Australia when it tries to deal with the Internet… You know what, can you name a country that doesn’t get villified? I’ve even heard people spread FUD about Canada.
And almost none of those countries are doing anything right now as bad as invading Ukraine for… still basically no reason other than vague fear that they might have one day joined NATO.
This isn’t about ethics. Countries are not people, they only act in their own interest with exactly zero regard for anything else. Russia attacked Ukraine because it was the least bad option for them (Ukraine joining NATO would be very bad for them), and the US imposes sanctions because it is also the best possible move, and now they can do it without facing backlash. And that includes propaganda if necessary, on both sides.
The point I’m trying to defend is that manipulating the public’s opinion is part of the global dynamic, and everyone should be aware of, and oppose it, to get what THEY want, rather than what the large-scale political chaos imposes on them. You seem to agree on that, so that’s great, I don’t see the need for further debate.
All I can think of is that in the latest season it is shown that an American super hero was captured by the Soviets in the 80s(?) and held captive (well, more like cryosleep) until today.
Yup, and in this case the Soviets (/Russians) weren’t really portrayed as villians IMO.
The Boys isn’t much anti-Russian because (beware of Spoilers):
spoiler
The captured super hero (Soldier Boy) was actually betrayed by his own comrades and then handed over to the Soviets. IIRC, this betrayal was even coordinated by the super hero company in order to profit off of their new, lab-grown super hero.
If anything, The Boys is more anti-US than anti-Russian due to its underlying anti-Capitalist/anti-Neoliberal messages (The US being more Capitalist than Russia in this case).
The show also portrays corruption, illegal business and unethical practices conducted by companies in order to maximize profits. The show is mainly a criticism of Capitalism and Neoliberalism in the US and doesn’t really show anything having much to do with Russia.
Besides that, the most vile characters in the show are actually the american super heros themselves together with the company. From committing murders to doing drugs and even human trafficking.
So, I think it’s fair to say that the show isn’t specifically anti-Russian.
The west hates Russia because they failed to break up and colonize Russia back in the 90s. The issue isn’t with Russia being a mirror of the west, it’s that it has its own independent domestic and geopolitical policy that doesn’t come from Washington and controls its resources.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !asklemmy@lemmy.ml
A loosely moderated place to ask open ended questions
If your post is
Open ended
Not offensive
Not regarding lemmy support (c/lemmy_support)
not ad nauseam inducing (please make sure its a question that would be new to most members)
deleted by creator
They have to vilify the countries they haven’t dominated yet, or are about to dominate again. It’s part of how war works. Also the US wants the world’s resources on a silver platter and Russia has a LOT of resources.
I don’t vilify Russia as it is much more than its government. I do vilify its government and Putin - in general and especially as a gay man. I also have a strong distaste for any far right ideology. I don’t understand why people seem to defend Putin so much.
I think it’s mainly reactionary. I think people feel the “western” world is so beyond corrupt that any leader that isn’t part of it can’t be all that bad.
I agree. I know, this reply took a while. I was excited to join lemmy, as although I am not a believer in pure “communism”, i do lean progressively left. And I enjoyed it here for a long time…when the Russia/Ukraine war broke out…I got discouraged with all this pro-Putin posts…and it was obvious, if I tried to voice an opinion (like current Russia is absolutely not communist, but in fact the opposite end of spectrum), i would get bad mouthed and down voted to oblivion! Now…I understand the distaste to the West and especially the Us (i live in a US territory (PR), I understand the US behaves badly…on a very personal level even!) But that doesn’t mean every foe of the US is automatically good! Two opposing people can be both bad at the same time. Sigh…
You really just said that straight up when UK and US have become a literal meme.
Failed Balkanisation of Russia + communism refuses to lose against genocidal superimperialist capitalist Anglo Fascism
Basically L + ratio for Anglo empire, so they cope using media-military propaganda bullshittery everyday
I mean, Russia villifies Russia.
The west takes advantage of one more nutjob out there to say “see? do you really want us to cede more power to these psychos?”
But Russia isn’t like everyone else. They pulled CIA shit in Belarus, and they invaded Ukraine with no real justification. They’re just murdering Ukranians because Putin wants to be taken more seriously, or doesn’t like the idea of Nato having too much power in general and wants to swing his dick around to say “I’m too powerful, too.”
And even if you want to pretend that the US is just as bad as Russia… The west villifies the US all the time, we’re widely regarded to suck pretty hard. Why should we pretend Putin is a saint?
late to the game… but you got upvoted(Im shocked)! Simply put…the US and Russia can oppose each other and still both be bad!!!
deleted by creator
There is no comparison between Russia and the US. Nothing Russia has ever done even begins to come close to the atrocities US is committing around the globe. War on terror alone massacred over 6 million people. US is currently facilitating a literal genocide in Yemen, and starving Afghanistan after going on a murder spree there for two decades. Comparing Russia to this is frankly laughable.
The US can be worse than Russia…but that doesn’t make Russia good.
The point here is that the west has no place vilifying Russia. People in the west would do far better holding their own regimes to account rather than spending their time pointing fingers.
agreed, if by west, we mean governments. Just as anywhere people are more than that.
Of course, I’m strictly referring to the ruling class and their propaganda machine here.
The US is literally murdering Syrians right now with unending sanctions that have completely crippled them. Sanctions only hurt civilians. Also the US is occupying large swaths of Syria and stealing the oil from the oil fields.
What other country does shit like this?
Sanctions are basically a modern version siege warfare, and their explicit intent is to harm the civilian population of the country. It’s a form of a war crime that US regime popularized.
Indeed. Come to think of it, what other country sanctions anyone that the US isn’t sanctioning? The effect would be so miniscule as to be laughable. But when the US rallies the minions it’s a devastating weapon against civilian populations.
… lol, you think 6 million people is a large number to Russia? Boy, open a history book.
You should open a history book yourself someday kiddo. The 6 million is just a drop in the bucket when it comes to US atrocities. The sheer amount of ignorance required to think that Russia has killed more people than US is frankly astounding. Americans massacred so many indigenous people that the global temperature cooled!
I’m really not sure why this is a competition, but here’s a short history of the jaw-dropping death Russia has always liked causing, just what I could get from a quick search:
https://en.mercopress.com/2022/11/30/ukraine-remembers-the-millions-condemned-to-starvation-in-1932-33-by-russia-s-joseph-stalin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_genocide
https://borgenproject.org/top-12-deadliest-wars-in-history/
specifically or ww2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths_by_country
Note that I’m counting Russian civillian and military deaths against Russia, which I probably would with the US too, but seems particularly appropriate with Russia, since their main military strategy is just "we have more people and our land is very cold. Attrition and starvation!
Let’s just see what actual research says on the subject of the famine in Ukraine. During the 1932 Holodomor Famine, the USSR sent aid to affected regions in an attempt to alleviate the famine. According to Mark Tauger in his article, The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933:
Some bring up massive grain exports during the famine to show that the Soviet Union exported food while Ukraine starved. This is fallacious for a number of reasons, but most importantly of all the amount of aid that was sent to Ukraine alone actually exceeded the amount that was exported at the time.
According to Tauger, the reason why more aid was not provided was because of the low harvest
Tauger is not a communist, and ultimately this specific article takes the view that the low harvest was caused by collectivization (he factors in the natural causes of the famine in later articles, based on how he completely neglects to mention weather in this article at all its clear that his position shifted over the years). However, its interesting to see that the Soviets really did try to alleviate the famine as best as they could.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2500600
Also, love how you count Soviets killing nazis in WW2. Turns out you’re a nazi sympathizer as well. Not really surprising, but worth noting.
Meanwhile, let’s just take a look at a few things US has been responsible for in recent history https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Imperialism/usmurder.html
I’ll repeat this once again since you have hard time understanding basic facts. Nothing Russia has done comes even close to the atrocities US has committed and is currently committing this very day.
US bombing killed about 20~25% of North Korean population and destroyed 85% of their buildings. Napalms were dropped and cities were reduced to ashes. North Koreans teach their children that it was a holocaust. This is what US has been doing and continues to do today.
oh no, I thought you were just talking about deaths caused. I can start justifying American wars too, if you want to do that, America killed Nazis too, but its strategy wasn’t to sacrifice the meat-shields in Ukraine and then scorched earth the rest of the way until eventually launching a counter-offensive. I mean, whatever works, but damn, it was gruesome.
Lol, the USSR was equally involved in most of those wars, and Russia is fucking around in Syria right now too.
but yeah, nothing Russia did comes close to the proxy wars between Russia and the US.
Ah, it was the Soviet Union’s fault that nazis invaded. You’re utterly deplorable.
It was not equally involved in those wars because it was US that chose to invade countries half way across the world. Meanwhile, the only reason Syria doesn’t look like Libya today is because Russia intervened. Imagine being such an utter ghoul to think that Syria being destroyed by US is a better outcome.
And the exact same pattern is seen in all other interventions. Vietnam and Cuba are successful socialist states today thanks to USSR. Meanwhile, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Yemen, and many other countries are hell on Earth thanks to US. That’s the difference. And the fact that you can’t see it says everything I need to know about you.
I implore you to learn some history so you don’t look like a total 🤡. You’re an utter embarrassment and you don’t even realize it.
deleted by creator
unprovoked invasion of ukraine… sigh i guess raising an extreme right-wing ultra-nationalist (read: nazi) army that slaughtered thousands of Ukrainians in regions where they didn’t accept the coming nazification of the country, and who were running referendums to join Russia, and then being prepped for application to NATO is not provocation at all.
deleted by creator
Looks like Western propaganda has been effective!
Ah, the war doesnt exist, its all a hoax isn’t it? Fuck you.
Just ask the victims I’d say.
deleted by creator
Tankies think it’s fine because the US has a problem with it… or because NATO exists and that justifies whatever murderous reaction Russia might engage in.
Are tankies in the room with you right now?
They’re the voices in your head telling you to kill and kill again
😆
Glad you asked. Only internet super-hero tankies who make themselves believe they are communists.
Communism understander has logged on.
Well spoken comrade sock-puppet!
just becaue you don’t like being called a tankie doesn’t mean tankies don’t exist, tankie
whatever you say my little dronie
Do you have a response to the so-called “propoganda?”
I am European and I hate what the Western bloc is doing to Russia. Not a day goes by that the TV doesn’t say something wrong about Russia. They act like those kids who can’t take it out on the guy who messed with them, they hit their dog.
Russia has major supplies of important resources like oil, gas, metals etc. Its also a fact that Russia has its own distinct culture, which defies the us empire on the world stage.
There is also some historical background from the rivalry between orthodox religion and catolicism, but this might be less relevant today (who knows).
deleted by creator
I think this is close to the real answer. Russia is a “threat” to world domination by the U.S.('s culture). Russia has important, critical resources and isn’t in the “american sphere of influence”. Russia also can’t be ignored or invaded like many other countries.
The “west” doesn’t hate post-soviet Russia. There are eastern European states that justifiably are afraid of them due to being colonized by them for a really long time (with the Russians in power showing no signs of remorse about that, quite the contrary) and then there are the US/UK that play their age old divide and conquer empire games.
In addition to that the current Russian Federation has developed into a mafia state that recently decided it is in their interest to invade a neighbouring country and kill a lot of innocent people, which didn’t exactly help their image.
Edit: What recent movies do you mean? I am not aware of any Russian villains in recent Marvel movies… and I think they stopped making other kinds of movies /s
Trying to imagine the amount of intellectual bankruptcy required to continue peddling this narrative with a straight face. If anything, Russia followed the precedent that NATO itself set in Yugoslavia almost to the letter. Let’s stop pretending that Russia is doing some unique evil in Ukraine or that the west played no role in creating this conflict.
How do you think things will go with China in the future? Ally with Russia long term or short term etc?
China and Russia are quickly becoming allies out of necessity. They see each other as being back to back against the west. I expect there’s going to a be a similar relationship as with US and Canada in the long run. China has a much bigger population and industrial base while Russia has a lot of natural resources. It’s looking like China and Russia are also building an alternative economic framework to the west with BRICS, and it’s likely that much of the developing world will end up aligning with this bloc going forward.
You are putting words into my mouth and are constructing an absurd strawman. One wrong doesn’t justify another.
I’m not doing anything of the sort. The framing you’re using implies that Russia just decided to attack Ukraine out of the blue and for no reason as opposed to having spent the past eight years trying to find a diplomatic solution with the west.
Russia decided to attack Ukraine in 2014, they only doubled down in 2022.
The “diplomatic solution” would be to not invade Crimea and then that’s it, problem solved.
It’s incredibly dishonest to ignore all the history leading up to 2014, and NATO backed color revolution in 2014. Plenty of experts in the west have been warning about this for many years now. Here’s what Chomsky has to say on the issue recently:
https://truthout.org/articles/us-approach-to-ukraine-and-russia-has-left-the-domain-of-rational-discourse/
https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/
50 prominent foreign policy experts (former senators, military officers, diplomats, etc.) sent an open letter to Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion back in 1997:
George Kennan, arguably America's greatest ever foreign policy strategist, the architect of the U.S. cold war strategy warned that NATO expansion was a "tragic mistake" that ought to ultimately provoke a "bad reaction from Russia" back in 1998.
Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was "the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat [...] since the Soviet Union collapsed"
Academics, such as John Mearsheimer, gave talks explaining why NATO actions would ultimately lead to conflict this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
These and many other voices were marginalized, silenced, and ignored. Yet, now people are trying to rewrite history and pretend that Russia attacked Ukraine out of the blue and completely unprovoked.
It’s incredibly dishonest to pretend that NATO expansion justifies the invasion of a country that isn’t a part of NATO, wasn’t planning on joining NATO, and did nothing else to provoke Russia.
The US probably shouldn’t have expanded NATO as hard as it did. None of this justifies the invasion.
What’s dishonest is claiming that Russia had to simply accept a hostile military alliance that’s been invading countries for decades expanding to its borders. It’s also a flat out lie to claim that Ukraine was not planning to join NATO. Ukrainian officials, including Zelensky, repeatedly expressed desire to join NATO.
Furthermore, Russia literally followed the precedent that NATO itself established in Yugoslavia to the letter. NATO recognized separatist regions then had them invite NATO troops as a pretext for the invasion. Russia used exactly the same justification and the international precedent that NATO created.
deleted by creator
READ.
The links I provided above discuss these reasons in great detail…
I can think of new media that vilifies Russia. For example, The Boys.
The Boys villifies one fictional superhero who was very much American, but was frozen in Russia. And a few other nameless Russian villains, in addition to a whole bunch of named and nameless American villains, and a few other villains around the world.
Never heard of that. This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boys_(TV_series) ?
The wikipedia page at least doesn’t sound like Russia is even a topic in that?
Here, if you look for the word ‘Russia’ it appears in 5 out of 8 episodes. They literally infiltrate a Russian facility, where the Russians appear as the antagonists, plus Russian characters act in other vile ways in the plot.
Good thing all the Americans in that show are so great…
But why Russia specifically? You can only demonize yourself or your enemies, and Russia is the enemy here.
no, like, most countries get villified somewhere or another. The Iranian regime is under a lot of fire right now for obvious reasons. Everybody has some gripe or another with China (especially the Uyghurs). North Korea, Qatar, Brazil, Belarus, Mexico, both India and Pakistan, both India and Palestine, Australia when it tries to deal with the Internet… You know what, can you name a country that doesn’t get villified? I’ve even heard people spread FUD about Canada.
And almost none of those countries are doing anything right now as bad as invading Ukraine for… still basically no reason other than vague fear that they might have one day joined NATO.
This isn’t about ethics. Countries are not people, they only act in their own interest with exactly zero regard for anything else. Russia attacked Ukraine because it was the least bad option for them (Ukraine joining NATO would be very bad for them), and the US imposes sanctions because it is also the best possible move, and now they can do it without facing backlash. And that includes propaganda if necessary, on both sides.
The point I’m trying to defend is that manipulating the public’s opinion is part of the global dynamic, and everyone should be aware of, and oppose it, to get what THEY want, rather than what the large-scale political chaos imposes on them. You seem to agree on that, so that’s great, I don’t see the need for further debate.
Seems like these episodes were made after the start of the war in Ukraine?
All I can think of is that in the latest season it is shown that an American super hero was captured by the Soviets in the 80s(?) and held captive (well, more like cryosleep) until today.
Yup, and in this case the Soviets (/Russians) weren’t really portrayed as villians IMO.
The Boys isn’t much anti-Russian because (beware of Spoilers):
spoiler
The captured super hero (Soldier Boy) was actually betrayed by his own comrades and then handed over to the Soviets. IIRC, this betrayal was even coordinated by the super hero company in order to profit off of their new, lab-grown super hero.
If anything, The Boys is more anti-US than anti-Russian due to its underlying anti-Capitalist/anti-Neoliberal messages (The US being more Capitalist than Russia in this case). The show also portrays corruption, illegal business and unethical practices conducted by companies in order to maximize profits. The show is mainly a criticism of Capitalism and Neoliberalism in the US and doesn’t really show anything having much to do with Russia.
Besides that, the most vile characters in the show are actually the american super heros themselves together with the company. From committing murders to doing drugs and even human trafficking. So, I think it’s fair to say that the show isn’t specifically anti-Russian.
The west hates Russia because they failed to break up and colonize Russia back in the 90s. The issue isn’t with Russia being a mirror of the west, it’s that it has its own independent domestic and geopolitical policy that doesn’t come from Washington and controls its resources.