- cross-posted to:
- genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/426976
I’m asking in good faith here, not trying to start a fight but if my understanding of the content that person posted is correct (abjectly transphobic) then why was their perma ban changed to a 2 day ban?
Frippa got two days for posting a statue with a dick, this clown posted hateful shit and gets the same punishment?
That doesn’t seem right at all.
If this was an accident fair enough but the mod log doesn’t give us justification for these decisions and it leaves it open to speculation and having their ban changed to 2 days seems sus af.
If this is something to do with lemmy vs lemmygrad then fair enough can that be explained please.
Thank you.
You must log in or register to comment.
Lemmygrad is in a specific position in that we are visible enough to get new users relatively frequently, while also being small enough that we have a certain culture we have fostered.
This leaves us in a unique position to let in people and give them a chance to get acclimated to our ideas as communists. As I explained previously in a post, we tend to let people in quite easily (contrary to how I vet on discord, I find it less damaging to let in someone on lemmygrad than on discord servers). The questions don’t vet for this kind of opinions and so it came as a surprise that this user posted this kind of comments.
In this regard we should see bans not as the sum of consequences for one’s actions (sort of like demerits), but as a chance to tell them “hey look, this doesn’t fly here. Use this time to get better acquainted with this topic, or to cool off, and come back when you’re better”. I.e. 3 violations does not sum up to 3 bans worth.
Of course a first ban does not prevent a second, third, or even perma ban in the future.
Regarding this user, we received an appeal as @sovietsnake@lemmygrad.ml has explained but due to the ban removing the user’s content, we were unable to see it at all (it gets completely purged even for admins). Like I said, all of this came as a surprise. I myself don’t even remember having read anything this user wrote. I see they did post a lot, but I honestly do not remember them.
I did find the second post Seanchai was talking about in the reports (apparently they do stay up there even if removed from profiles), and with that I agree with a perma ban. I’ll also relay that post to the team and I think we’ll all be in agreement there.
Thank you for clarifying.
Is it feasible in the future to develop the mod log to include a field for further clarity on the specifics of actions taken?
I think this is definitely needed but it would have to go through the issues page on the github repo: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues and for a dev to get around to it eventually.
Ah gotcha.
Normally admins should remove a few of their posts, so that they can have modlog entries, before doing a ban. Then we can easily see what the offending content was. That wasn’t done here unfortunately, but I’ll try to encourage mods and admins to do that in the future.
Thank you 🫂
I second this.
Bans are extremely alienating, and we have a policy for admins to have the freedom to ban however they see fit, but to undo the ban when there is disagreement, and then discuss it further.
mlcolo’s posts were all removed, so none of the other admins could see any of the offending content. An admin advocated on their behalf, and told us that they would talk to mlcolo personally. I also sent them a message (that they’ll see when their temp ban is up) that any homophobia or transphobia will result in a permaban.
I spoke on mlcolo’s behalf before I was aware of their actual post. I was told their offense was something much less serious than it actually was. Their offense cannot be justified, and in unison with other admins and users, I also agree to a permaban.
Thank you for responding 😊
I think @frippa@lemmy.ml is irrelevant to the discussion.
I disagree with taking a soft stance against trans-homophobia. If the admin who took the decision can repost what the comments were then we can see if a temporary ban keeps LGBT people safe. But if the action was so bad it deserved to get the entire account’s history purged, I believe the moderation team has some severe miscommunication going on.
This is surprising because I’ve found the admin team to make good decisions against reactionaries. This doesn’t look like a good decision.
I reported two posts of mlcolo’s. Firstly: a meme in which Stalin and Lenin called Trotsky the homophobic f-slur. In the comments other comrades tried telling mlcolo that was not acceptable, and rather than take the meme down they just said they “didn’t write it” themself, they just copied the link.
The second was a a tweet by a nazbol (nazbol was literally in the @) that said that disabled black trans women didn’t need to exist. That’s it. That was the post.
Transphobic. Homophobic. And a nazbol.
I’m inclined to believe you
And I don’t, if trolling and abject transphobia warrant the same ban length aa trolling (which the modlog says) then that’s stupid.
Whether frippa’s ban was justified is irrelevant yes but that’s not why I’ve mentioned them here, it’s the justification for both bans and their equal length of the ban that I’m highlighting here.
Trolling admins: 2 days
Homophobia/transphobia: 2 days
Doesn’t make sense.
oh god i just looked at my notifications and i thought i unavvertedly (or hou you say that) posted some hompohobic stuff lmao, ill go back to my troll cave
Ah yes, my evil plan to rid Lemmygrad of Italians is finally giving results /s
I have known Mlcolo for a few months and when I found out I contacted the admins and asked if they could forgive him, so if someone should be blame it is me. I know what he did was wrong, and it is not something that should be taken lightly.
I met him on Leftypol when I was looking for fellow Marxist comrades from Latin America, he is from Colombia, since then I introduced him to Lemmygrad and I have felt he has grown in his path to radicalization. That being said he comes from a background with Chan culture, plus in Spanish the equivalent to that word he used on the post, “f_____”, is used extremely often in a lot of scenarios (as a reclaimed slur, as a way of saying “dude”, and also as a slur/insult), so I think not understanding the gravity of the situation can be related to a lot of factors. I spoke with him about the issue and he said he was sorry and that he wouldn’t do it again. I think we should forgive some people who come from different backgrounds when they are trying to change they perceive the world, so it is justifiable for me to give a warning instead of a full on prohibiting from interacting with this community which could help him become a better person. Still, if the majority think this is something unforgivable, I think it is fair and the ban should be re-reversed.
I am giving you some context and my personal opinion, excuse me if it is not the best one, and I hope no one here ended up harmed.
The second was a a tweet by a nazbol (nazbol was literally in the @) that said that disabled black trans women didn’t need to exist. That’s it. That was the post.
How do you explain this then? Is this information false? You can’t tell me that violent transmisogyny and racism doesn’t exist in Colombia and it’s merely a misunderstanding of an E2L speaker.
Extremely disappointed to hear this from you and using his Latin identity to apologize for it. For personal reasons I don’t make public in Lemmygrad and my sexual and gender identity. Can’t even fucking trust communists.
I just found out about that post and I can’t explain it, there’s no justification for that, when I talked to them I was only aware of the other post.
You can’t tell me that violent transmisogyny and racism doesn’t exist in Colombia and it’s merely a misunderstanding of an E2L speaker.
I am not saying it does not exist, of course it does, it is probably even more terrible for them, the only thing I am saying is that that specific word can be used by a plethora of people in different circumstances.
the only thing I am saying is that that specific word can be used by a plethora of people in different circumstances.
You know I’m in no way ignorant about what you’re talking about and I want you to know that I find it offensive on a visceral level. I hope channer humor and the thrill of using a normalized insult is worth alienating LGBT people.
Yes. I am taking this issue personally now.
Sorry if I’m a bit dense but are you both talking about channers sticking the f-word on everything? Does it mean anything other than being offensive? I don’t want to cause drama I just am not sure I understand the context/subtext.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, I understand your argument and I agree that I’d rather we rehabilitate people vs ban and leave them to problematic views and takes.
I can’t comment on the cultural aspects personally.
My main concern is what Seanchaí highlighted:
“The second was a a tweet by a nazbol (nazbol was literally in the @) that said that disabled black trans women didn’t need to exist. That’s it. That was the post.”
We don’t need this content on here and i want to know why it was deemed acceptable to post in the first place.
Was it meant to be a “shit fascists say” sort of post?
Secondly I don’t think their response to being called out on saying the f-slur was appropriate.
If you vouch for them that this was more of a language barrier/understanding issue I understand but what I’m worried about is that this is a “I won’t do it again” (because I’ll get banned) vs a “I won’t do it again” (because I legitimately understand why I fucked up and why it was wrong) situation.
I guess what I’m asking for is a guarantee that they legitimately understand why they fucked up.
I understand that isn’t exactly simple but can you appreciate that given the amount of random and frankly unnecessary downvotes on explicitly queer content in c/196 for example (a sub that has since its creation on reddit long before lemmygrad, always been a safe space for queer people and uncritically supporitve) that seem to follow nearly all posts, that’s there’s a genuine concern for some users on here that a spectre of homophobia/transphobia haunts lemmygrad in the form of reactionary users.
I’d like to change hearts and minds but I believe there’s users on here who dogmatically don’t like queer people and this does make me feel uncomfortable.
Personally that’s how I feel regarding all this. I want this place to help others grow but not at the detriment of already existing users so again I’d personally need some sort of guarantee that your friend understands quite how badly they fucked up and recognises why others are upset.
I just found out about the second post, which I was not aware of when I asked for his forgiveness. I am sorry and I think he should remained permanently banned.
Yeah I just saw your response to panic.
No worries and yes I think for now that is probably best until they can re-address that aspect of their understanding.
deleted by creator
It wasn’t porn it was that famous Michealangelo marble statue that they got banned for due to it being a troll post iirc.
I’m all for keeping porn off here but personally while I thought frippa’s initial post was crass and valid to be removed (this was the mod team of 196’s agreement) I think categorising it as porn in the mod log was unhelpful and directly contributed to them posting the statue picture and getting banned for trolling.
Whether than ban is justified or not isn’t really my point, in regards to frippa I think we need to readdress what is agreed to be porn and what is just material that isn’t desirable because calling everything porn when it’s not makes us look like wacky anti-art Christians vs practising communists.
Frippa posted a cringe drawing of a penis, not something anyone here should see, especially since we have a lot of underage users. After it was reported, then removed, they started troll-posting the same pic but with a covering over the penis, then michelangelo. Just standard trolling that should not in any way be allowed.
You can see their removed posts in the modlog.
edit: also I don’t want community mods to feel like us admins are stepping on your toes, but we do have instance-wide rules against that type of content.
We don’t feel like you stepped on our toes, we agreed with the decision.
My personal point is that I don’t think categorising it as porn was helpful or accurate in the modlog and I think that contributed to them acting out hence the statue post with the title including “porn” or a reference to that.
“Explicit/problematic imagery” was what i intended to remove the post under and I think that articulates better why the post itself was unacceptable.
That was my bad, I pry could’ve spent more time thinking about a better ban message.
I get your point though, removing the content was the priority given minors are on here.
deleted by creator
No not at all, I’m not trying to come across aggressive or anything, sorry if I did 😪
I just think there’s lessons to be learnt from both this scenario and how frippa’s ban was presented in the modlog to make sure that its actually transparent.
deleted by creator
I do the same 💀
deleted by creator
What happened?
Based lmao. I deleted it because for some reason my brain filtered out all the information below the actual picture post. I’m fairly caught up now <3
👍
