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@specter
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It’s worth pointing directly at how YouTube is a bad tool for what creators are trying to do as evidenced by the constant dancing around what the algorithm considers “advertiser friendly”. When’s the last time you watched a YouTube video and they didn’t have to censor themselves either explicitly or by thinking out loud “YouTube will flag this”?

Creators want to be apart of a community moderated and curated by real humans just like their audience, I would guess, and it’s exciting that PeerTube is postured to support this! I don’t think it’s a hard sell really other than the monetary landscape will get rattled but I imagine that’s a solvable problem too.

@Gwynne
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@Niquarl
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It could be worth creating a proper guide to moving to the fediverse. Including views from users, admins, where to self-host etc. I don’t think that actually exists. There are a couple of providers that ship Mastodon directly like masto.host but no idea if that’s really working out that well.

@Gwynne
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Raavan
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the fact that shouting from a barren land and from middle of a busy city makes the difference. the barren land needs to populate so as to lure the creators.

@Gwynne
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Raavan
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Soon…

Katie Ampersand
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is it okay to do shameless self-promotion here even if my content is sparse

@Gwynne
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Katie Ampersand
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Not really novelist, I just do worldbuilding and conlanging. I sometimes do other kinds of things like programming stuff or drawings. It’s all on my website. It has an RSS feed too!

@disrooter
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Am I wrong or Mastodon’s RSS feed doesn’t even support images?

@Gwynne
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@dragonX
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@sibachian
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basically, the fediverse either needs advertisers or some groundbreaking tech/concept which will provide a revenue stream for content creators and revenue seekers.

@Gwynne
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@ufrafecy
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@sibachian
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any view on peertube means one less view on YouTube which means less revenue. this is not the way.

@Gwynne
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@disrooter
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As someone who managed a PeerTube instance for a large YouTube channel I have to say the big problem is storage: how are you going to pay for storage that increases with each new video while the income is mostly the same? From a business point of view it’s a suicide.

Keep in mind content creators on YouTube produce many gigabytes/week. In a few years they would have to pay hundreds of dollars each week, even when they pause and not producing any new video, when they are getting less donations and so on.

Why should they invest so much money in a PeerTube instance? Only a premium pay-to-view service can justify it and you really need a high cost-to-produce-and-stream-the-video/minutes-of-video ratio to make it convenient, for example documentaries and not lazy records of hours of online debates.

@Niquarl
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How many GB are we really talking about per week here? Most instances seem to have costs of between 15 and 40€/month and some of them have over a TB of data…

@disrooter
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Roughly ~20-80 GB/week resulting after a couple of years in ~100-200$/month

@Niquarl
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That’s huge! Who uploads so much they need 80GB :o

@disrooter
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Have you taken into account that the final space occupied by a video includes several files transcoded at different resolutions?

@Niquarl
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I mean, yeah for sure but still that is a lot. It’s Twitch Replays or something (also no need to use 4k necessarilly).

@Gwynne
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@specter
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This has to have been discussed before right? Because yeah this is a very strong argument not to self-host. Naively I’m wondering if there can be archives backed by IPFS or something but that’s so much data it’s scary.

@disrooter
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Indeed I opened the issue on PeerTube Github about IPFS years ago. No, IPFS alone doesn’t solve this, it would just be a way to make the federation more robust.

The only solution I can think of is the following: make PeerTube content creators able to “archive” their old videos, maybe automatically when they approach a storage limit. By “archiving” I mean the video files are deleted from the server but the video page with its comments remain. Before archiving the author is prompted to download the video files. If a user open the page of an archived video they can’t play it, instead a button is shown to ask the original author to reupload it. The user is then notified that the video is available again. At that point is up to the content creator to reupload the old video and keep it online for a while. One could also reupload the video files because their video is relevant again (think about old news that can return interesting).

@Gwynne
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@disrooter
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I already discussed this once on GitHub, I don’t remember where, sorry.

@Gwynne
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@disrooter
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The article is really interesting, thank you! But it’s all about performance it seems. As far as I can understand a decentralized network of small PeerTube instances don’t need much work for scaling, what we have to solve instead is rough storage size.

For sure we should improve the support for WebMonetization and get microdonations while streaming but again the main problem remain: the storage cost always increases over the time while the income is always tied to actual views/popularity/donations/whatever at a given time.

The video files have to be removed from the servers, the point is how. In addition to the archiving feature I described the “archived” videos could be streamed from the PCs of people making them available via (Web)Torrent. This should be techically possible since the support for WebTorrent is coming to libtorrent, the library used by many torrent desktop clients, but we would still need a lot of work on PeerTube side.

At that point the PeerTube instances would be a mere interface to stream video stored on people’s PCs and eventually caching popular videos automatically on the servers for better performance.

@Gwynne
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@disrooter
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Using a different file system can increase the performance but it doesn’t provide extra storage…

@Gwynne
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@disrooter
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The monetization can be made with the upcoming WebMonetization plugin.

The industry already provides storage on demand, see Amazon S3. I don’t think someone can build something better and convenient enough, the maintainance costs are huge too.

A YouTube channel with a few hundred subscribers may be able to make its PeerTube instance affordable if WebMonetization spreads enough and uses the PeerTube instance to deliver premium content and thus bypass YouTube’s membership system.

But providing the video upload service publicly to anyone like YouTube does is impossible because there is no such thing as Google’s ad system. Maybe in the future when the vast majority of users will have WebMonetization enabled.

@Gwynne
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@disrooter
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For me the key is WebMonetization, if it will partially replace the advertising on the Web there are more chances that casual users will stream microdonations to PeerTube content creators automatically while watching their videos.

Coil’s implementation of WebMonetization already let its users support Twitch channels with microdonations. Imagine if at a certain point YouTube supports ad-free version of its videos if the user is streaming microdonations with WebMonetizarion. And most other premium Web services do the same, for example newspapers. At that point the WebMonetization userbase would be so huge that PeerTube instances can be supported by most of their visitors.

@Gwynne
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@TheConquestOfBed
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IPFS works similarly to webtorrent. However IPFS is working on a system to incentivize seeding via filecoin.

@ufrafecy
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@Gwynne
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A community dedicated to fediverse news and discussion.

Fediverse is a portmanteau of “federation” and “universe”. It is a common, informal name for a federation of social network servers whose main purpose is microblogging, the sharing of short, public messages.

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