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@libre_warrior
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Focus local, not global. Get your friends, family and other locals to join the fediverse. Make it relevant in your community. Comprehend why your peers benefit from the fediverse and create rhetorics that can convince them. Make the process of giving it a shot as easy as possible. Dont trust that they are going to figure it out themselves. People might like the idea of the fediverse, but they have a life to deal with as well.

@QueenPriscilla
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@libre_warrior
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If you dont believe that everyday people can be convinced, then you should also forfeit the idea that it can become mainstream.

@QueenPriscilla
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I want to agree with @libre_warrior@lemmy.ml, but also I think that there is no right or wrong. What works works.

Convincing friends & family only works to a degree. Some people I wouldn’t even try to talk about stuff like this, let them come to you if they ever want to know about software freedom or privacy, they already know that you care. But some people will be perfect on the fediverse or on a nextcloud instance, lemmy whatever. Not all of these at once.

Then wait a year or so and more people in your periphery will suddenly ask about stuff etc, because they see that the other “not so much into technology” people like it.

To get “global attention”, open-source projects need the difficult stuff that are hard to get and get right as a project, like a really good UI, more convenience than the opposition etc.

@ufrafecy
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@dragonX
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@ufrafecy
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@QueenPriscilla
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Dragon
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A not-buggy mastadon phone app would be good. As far as marketing, Crossposting lemmy links etc. to popular platforms could help. Or even one of those watermarks like tiktok and reddit do, so if something is shared outside the platform people know where it came from.

@QueenPriscilla
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everything starts with a good name:

  • fediverse popularity task-force (FPTF)
  • users advertising fediverse services (UAFS)

soemthing like that? Open a sublemmy for it, I’ll join and help moderate it.

@QueenPriscilla
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@PorkrollPosadist
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At the end of the day, you can’t solve socioeconomic and political problems with an app. The monopolization of social media is an inherently political problem, and ultimately the only solutions are political in nature. Centralized platforms like Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, and YouTube wield immense power over the way we communicate, and that power is not something that will be surrendered willingly. One might hope that market forces would spur competition, but the past couple decades of tech industry history has only indicated a tendency towards consolidation. Every “promising” upstart company like YouTube, WhatsApp, Twitch, GitHub etc. ultimately succumbs to the Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon blob.

Fediverse platforms like Lemmy, Mastodon, Peertube, Matrix, etc. are great technology. They are the future of the Internet - or at least, they deserve to be. The problem is, the technical details of federation and the implications of software licensing tend to get lost on the vast majority of people who aren’t either software engineers or activists. Most people don’t seem to care about privacy as long as they can get their memes and talk to grandma. As a pathological Free Software nerd myself, I’d talk to friends and family about how awful Facebook is for years and they’d literally reply “if you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear.”

I’ve been praying for a long time for decentralized, Free Software social media to take off. I remember the snazzy videos and Kickstarter campaign that launched the Diaspora network ten years ago. I was crushed when it made virtually no inroads into the Facebook monopoly.

The trend as it appears to me is that alternative social media platforms tend to grow the quickest when the monopoly platforms produce exile communities. Mastodon grew to millions of users out of dissatisfaction about the way Twitter was being operated (and then Gab is another story). Platforms like Raddle, Voat, Tildes, Lemmy, Hexbear, and TD.win (ugh) have grown either due to the fact that they were expelled from Reddit, or were so sick of the direction Reddit was heading in they decided to strike it out on their own.

At the end of the day, software is just a tool. Federated social networking is among the most promising tools in the box because federation appears to be the only plausible mechanism to overcoming the network effect, but it is still just a tool. The adoption of federated social networking platforms will be driven primarily by social forces, and I think the best way for us to promote the use of federated social media is to facilitate this process whenever push comes to shove.

@QueenPriscilla
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Metawish
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I think a major hurdle is that those centralized services have the EASIEST sign up process and the EASIEST find things to follow so that the feed isnt dead or filled with junk. Most processes use phone numbers to find IRL friends, and gather some of the biggest names in various catagories to toss at someone and say “yo, here’s some shit to follow”.

Can this hurdle be overcome? I think so, as long as there is a committed and active group of people. First, have multiple people host “first-stop” servers for newcomers. This helps to promote the federated method while also making it easy to join without thinking deeply about it. I know there already is a list of servers to join, but when someone is just starting off, it should automatically populate so they don’t even see it. There can be an option for someone who understands federation to select their server, but if we are reaching a non-tech audience, we have to understand some people are just not going to care.

Second, the feed. Now, the local/federated timeline is a feed, but the personal feed needs to be worked on too. We need accounts that retoot a lot, have a variety of topics, and some that talk about how mastodon works. I can think of a few already. Now I know that we wanna move away from the like culture, so have these accounts be handled by a group instead of a user only.

Third, make it easy to switch servers or host their own instance. We would hope to move a majority of people off the “first-comer” server. This is a small dev projrct and a major community project since the biggest hurdle there is that people don’t wanna pay for hosting or learn how to self-host. Some good projects that mostly manage hosting like Yunohost so its just convincing people that its a good thing.

This is just off the top of my head but I love this discussion happening. Following closely

@nutomic
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Its curious that you are talking on a federated platform, but only mention Mastodon as an example of federated software 🤔

Metawish
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Haha curious indeed (totally unintentional, I love Lemmy and can’t wait to see Yunohost add it to their app list!)

Lemmy is just so good, I can’t think of anything that needs to be done to get people joining other than letting them know it exists! You two are doing fantastic work here 😁

@nutomic
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Thank you ☺️

@QueenPriscilla
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@QueenPriscilla
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@sibachian
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Lemmy is the only fediverse community that works ideally as a “replacement” for reddit through the inherent nature of reddit itself. Mastodon, Pixelfed, Diaspora, Friendica, peertube, Matrix, etc. None of these live up to the requirement to work as a replacement for their respective community.

One of the major problems, i find, is that people actually want some level of spam coming their way, and to spam others. i.e. every artist knows that Twitter is the place to spread your art - and unfortunately, it cannot be done on Mastodon. Mastodon lacks both the community, and the features to highlight art and spread said art to its fans and viewers. Because of the lack of tools to get to your base on the fediverse (for privacy reasons), many people simply cannot jump to the platform without losing the ability to maintain their spread (and income), or the utility they need, in order to continue operating their communities. This is not to mention the problematic nature of how people use things. i.e. Facebook has an atrocious “forum” platform they call “groups”, people hate it, but they still opt to use Facebook’s groups rather than a proper forum or a reddit/lemmy sub for their community; and this is because they’re already on facebook as it is, because everything is on facebook, chat, group interests, shopping, business sites, business support chats, relevant ads, local and otherwise - everything is just there, and people will always take the path of least resistance even if it sort-of sucks (and believe me, i hate it more than most, as i work with facebooks tools daily, and it kills me a bit inside each and every day for how poorly everything works, there is a myriad of bugs, no support from facebook themselves, and half the time things are just down, for weeks at a time, i finally setup my own booking system because the facebook booking system has barely worked all last year - and sadly, leaving facebook for booking means i’ve lost about 20% of my clients).

Another huge hurdle is to compete with the big names when they have so much money to blow on things that we simply can’t. i.e. facebook is huge in third world nations and essentially “the internet”, because of privatized ISPs. people can’t afford to pay for internet, and because of that facebook has carved a very fine anti-competitive hole for themselves; because, even if you can’t afford to pay for internet, you can still browse facebook; as they pay the ISPs to allow people access to facebook for free despite not paying for an internet connection - meaning that people literally use facebook as the internet, finding businesses and tech support, information, share, communicating, hobby communities, calling, chatting, shopping, news, everything and anything. how do you compete with that? you can’t, not unless the fediverse somehow had the funds to pay these ISPs free access to the fediverse. and this sadly also means that as long as facebook maintains this massive userbase, facebook is here to stay.

Matrix is another “almost there, but not really”. It’s a fantastic platform, and it has gotten so very far since its inception, but it has too many bugs for public adoption (users except their platform of choice to ‘just work’), and still lacks essential features necessary to compete with Discord/Slack such as hotjoin voice chat, “servers” with “channels” (i know it tried to solve this, but their solution to it sucks), large-scale video conference (they sort-of do this, i guess - but it’s far from where it needs to be), and enterprise tools for administration, communication and organizing utility.

Bottom line, if the fediverse wants to succeed, it needs to focus on the tools necessary for communities to maintain a coherent environment. To focus on tools allowing creators to spread their creations. To focus on tools allowing business operations to spread their crap. To focus on tools allowing users to maintain a structured community of interest. And to some how afford to be free without an internet subscription.

Subversivo
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If wew ant the fediverse to be popular, we need to ask “what people want on a social platform?”

  • content

first of all, people want to enter the platform and get interesting content. Because of this, all networks fail or succeed based on the pioneers. Many of the content people want is brand/store/influencer content.

  • financial returns

content creators want money. directly or indirectly. if the platform can’t produce money in some way, many content creators will not care enough about it.

  • hype

Medium become big with a cool narrative. people want to fell like the time they are investing in social platforms are a good thing. Facebook had this while beating Orkut. nowadays have none. hype is fundamental to move people away from old platforms. So we need many important people talking good about fediverse on media aoulets, and people bragging about how fediverso is special.

*significant ones

family, friends, partners, comrades. we need to get in touch with people we care on social networks. if the platform is hyped enought we call them and they came. if not, we call them, they don’t came and we leave to be with them.

  • trust

we need to trust the manager/owners of networks. social likeability of server admins is a issue when calling people to fediverso servers. the “they can see your DMs” argument is a problem on small servers, because we know thet Twitter can read our DMs, but the best place to hide a tree is on a forest. The anonymity of numbers work on a million user service, but not on a 500 user server.

Some “bussines friendly” is in dire need. A patron/tip jar feature, a product catalog, and so, to allow monetary return for content creators.

this is a highly sensitive topic, as most of fediverse netizens don’t want to be spammed, but we can’t ignore that two of the most successful mastodon instances are sex work related, properly aimed to monetar returns.

the paradox of choice/need to trust your admin is a problem, because we have and will have much more campaign against fediverse. E2E is not really the best option, butastodon is going this way.

@QueenPriscilla
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@uthredii
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For those places where facebook is the internet it might still be possible to create some kind of distributed network inside facebook. Data could be sent through chat messages or something. You could make an interface/bridge for lemmy (or another federated/distributed platform).

I guess there are problems like facebook could shut it down/delete accounts.

@QueenPriscilla
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@sibachian
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monetization for users is definitely one of the problems we’re faced regardless of platform in todays online environment and culture, but it’s especially problematic for peertube. no youtube content creator will ever be willing to migrate as their main goal of creating youtube content is to monetize it and no aspiring video creator is interested in producing content they can’t monetize due to the work involved in producing quality video as any view they gain on peertube is a direct loss on potential income from youtube.

one way to migrate and populate the fediverse could both be by distributing crypto to content creators as well as allow users to directly monitize their browsing routines. i mean, take Brave browser for example, you get paid just by using the browser - that alone encourages users to drop whatever browser they use today and start using Brave, and r/CryptoCurrency on reddit distribute crypto based on your monthly karma accumulation on their sub which has massively populated the sub in recent months (aided by the goldrush for crypto).

@Gwynne
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@sibachian
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there really isn’t a good reason imo. this whole anti-crypto movement stems from PoW (proof of work), which is shit, and modern functional crypto either never had it, or are moving away from it. there are options out there which are no more damaging to the environment than lemmy itself (i mean, we still need computers/phones/servers and power to use this service; which is damaging the environment). and not all crypto is unethical money grabs or ponzi schemes. the technology itself has a wide range of utility beyond monetary gains, and even on a monetary level cryptocurrency is only a bad idea as far as money is a bad idea in general. and even then, to create a foundation of ethical and environmental utility based crypto with a wide range of utility in all sectors of society, and encouraging wide adaption through content creators and users moving to a platform where they make money for themselves, is just a good foundation where everybody wins, intentionally or not on the users part, even if the mission of the crypto itself is not to function as a currency or wealth accumulation; the goal itself is a motivator that just helps push the cause further.

regardless. for there to be any growth in todays climate and culture of the internet. without monetization, there is just no way to challenge big corporations. creators use these tools, such as twitter, facebook, youtube, etc. to make money. and users use them because that’s where they will find content and likeminded users. gone are the days of just raw community for the sake of community, where every site has a phpBB and every community has an IRC channel. today, everyone will move to where there is money to be made, because capitalism has corrupted every level society and there is no way to participate in society without either making money or losing money.

i would love for there to be a growing socialist consensus leading to communism, but in reality, we can’t challenge the current structure of capitalism until we get the average user on board, and the only way to do that is show them a better tomorrow for themselves through the only system they have ever known, and go from there.

@Gwynne
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@sibachian
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so we don’t have much of a chance in changing the world, if we don’t gather more people into the fediverse first.

kinda? but, while there is plenty of monetization going on over at reddit the vast majority of users are there to exchange information between each other rather than worshipping trend setters etc. which i think gives lemmy a unique advantage in the federated space to grow its userbase and encourage users to explore other platforms within the fediverse. but, content creators are one of the main driving force for user growth anywhere, even here, and they won’t participate on platforms that could actively cut into their income.

anyway, I hope you can join this project of mine if you are willing to volunteer. I need alot of people to help me do this. if so, wait until I’m ready.

i don’t think there’s much i can do to contribute, my main expertise is in user motivation and manipulation (marketing).

@Gwynne
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@sibachian
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i work with marketing, it’s my expertise.

@Gwynne
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I am here to say that being pro privacy and anti-censorship is political.

Maybe your countries parties (if you have democracy) don’t align perfectly on that scale, but that doesn’t change that.

@libre_warrior
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Everything is political.

yes, exactly

@QueenPriscilla
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@disrooter
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Lobby WordPress and other publishing platforms to federate all together via ActivityPub?

Imagine that suddenly all WordPress articles and related comments end up in the Fediverse.

@QueenPriscilla
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@disrooter
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The only plugin still supported is extremely basic. I am referring more to something that allows those who have a WordPress blog to follow other blogs or users of the Fediverse, write not only articles but also “notes” (the ActivityPub objects used by microblogging platforms such as Mastodon and Pleroma), reshare and reply to articles and notes by others etc.

I’m pretty sure it’s possible with WordPress.

@QueenPriscilla
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@nutomic
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@ascend
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maybe convince small game developers to use an instance of Lemmy as a type of forum for their games, then of the games get big like valheim just did then that will pull more users who will start to find their way around the fediverse

@QueenPriscilla
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@libre_warrior
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We have to make content creators on the fediverse accessible. A great strength of decentralized services is that they often make it very easy to subscribe through RSS. Regardless of which instance or platform we are using, we can subscribe through RSS. Therefore we don’t have to sign up anywhere to keep track of our favourite content creators. We don’t even have to worry that the service is discontinued because RSS can be fully self hosted.

We have to normalize RSS. If we do this, we make it easier for the audience to keep track of creators they are fond of. We make it easier for the content creator to pick the platform of their liking, because it is far easier to make their audience subscribe to another feed as opposed to signing up to another service.

How can we normalize RSS?

We have to teach our community how to use RSS. Our friends, family and our aquantances. We need to find the most convenient apps and software. Cross platform, autonomy preserving, libre and gratis. We need to showcase it’s strengths. How it makes it easier to pay attention to news. How it makes their friends blogs more accessable. How

Content creators has to ask their followers to follow their RSS feed. The more emphasis, the better. If you ask only to follow RSS, that’s the best.

@Danrobi
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We have to teach our community how to use RSS

Indeed!

@QueenPriscilla
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@nutomic
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@Gwynne@lemmy.ml as the mod in this community is inactive, and you are posting a lot of good threads and comments, would you like to be a mod here?

@Gwynne
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@nutomic
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You clearly put a lot of thought into them, and managed to receive a lot of valuable comments. I think those some of the most important criteria for a good discussion.

And you’re a mod now ;)

@Gwynne
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@nutomic
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Everyone starts somewhere, and I’m glad that its Lemmy for you. And youre welcome, but keep in mind that Lemmy would be nothing without its comunity and its users, we as developers are just as thankful for that.

@humanetech
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@Gwynne I also find your posts very inspiring. I just joined Lemmy and loving it (thanks heaps @nutomic!). Would you like to be co-mod of !fediversefutures@lemmy.ml too, Gwynne? See also my related post in your other thread.

@QueenPriscilla
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@wabooti
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wow what? did they give any reasons?

@QueenPriscilla
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@ufrafecy
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@QueenPriscilla
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@dragonX
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@libre_warrior
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Whats wrong with RSS?

@dragonX
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@QueenPriscilla
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@dragonX
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@QueenPriscilla
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@dragonX
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@QueenPriscilla
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A community dedicated to fediverse news and discussion.

Fediverse is a portmanteau of “federation” and “universe”. It is a common, informal name for a federation of social network servers whose main purpose is microblogging, the sharing of short, public messages.

Getting started on Fediverse;

For devs;

  • 0 users online
  • 15 users / day
  • 41 users / week
  • 82 users / month
  • 282 users / 6 months
  • 1901 subscribers
  • 263 Posts
  • 2153 Comments
  • Modlog