Yes, it’s optimized for German. But I’m sure any other language will be able to find a different use for the Umlaut-keys. But: Even if you cut out those keys it’s still 1337x more ergonomic than QWERTY/QWERTZ, which was designed for mechanical typewriters in 1878 and then never adjusted for the new reality of modern keyboards without hooks. If you are interested in the specific advantages: wikipedia

Now why would YOU be interested in it though? Maybe typing speed or ergonomics don’t matter as much as thinking speed for most of us?

First: Check out layer 3 and 4 of the layout:

All programming keys in a reasonable positions, arrow keys, a numpad, everything you need right there without the need to move your fingers anywhere else. A friend of mine who did not want to change from qwerty to neo simply uses a modified script that implements neo layers 3 and 4. It’s a bit like the vim basics but everywhere available.

Second: Me and a friend started using it during our undergrads. I have convinced only three people since to change. But everyone of them is (having hated me for a few months) extremely grateful for having a reasonable keyboard layout for the rest of their life.

Third: It only takes a month of dedication and maybe three months of struggling if you really want to change to neo, not only add layer 3 and 4.

Fourth: For the lulz, there is only few people who can actually cause real mischief on my computer unless they manage to change the keyboard layout only by mouse. (I did not change the keyboard labeling).

imho, this layout should be spread through schools and universities, especially for people who will be coding most of their lives. I can’t fathom how any sane programmer can create code with a german qwertz-keyboard, see how all the essential programming keys are in the unreachable top row. That’s why (I hope) most programmers in Germany use the qwerty-layout which is definitely better, though still horrible compared to neo.

Changing perspective to a utopia, where children pick up neo from the start, they would scream at our standard layouts: WHY, WHY WOULD YOU SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HAND?

Sorry for the polemics. But having a separate programming layer - and arrow keys and numpad and enter and backspace and tab and esc and scrolling keys and cool layer locks, etc. - just makes you wonder how any coder in the world would not use it. If you are teaching somewhere, please recommend or at least mention it. Everyone chooses their own tools, but most people just never wonder about the stupidweird keyboard they got. I did, and I continue to profit from this.

PS: Most mainstream distros have had de-neo as a default layout choice in their installer as long as I can remember. So there is hope that more people know it than I think. It was only once that I met another person who knew the layout.

PPS: Layers 5 and 6 are neat if you want to impress people by how fast you can type Γρεεκ, but since a lot of software has trouble with encoding in real life you still use the LaTeX-way.

PPPS: ANSI-keyboards suck for neo. it still works, but you lose two modifier keys. You get used to it, but just better get an ISO-keyboard.

  • @marcuse1w
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    53 years ago

    Personally I find the effort to learn a new layout not justifiable as I often work with different devices, some of them not my own, so it would be difficult to modify them and there is no way I could use a new layout blind.

    That said I find the approach to use only layer four and five on a qwerty keyboard interesting. How would I go about to try this ? For example on Linux Ubuntu or Archlinux?

    • @iancynkOP
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      33 years ago

      Good point.

      Apparently there is NeoQwertz and NeoQwerty, which are available in some distros (can confirm for manjaro). You might have to look under “German”. For Arch, I don’t think it is there, took me a while to find the keymap there. Though I am currently unable to find the NeoQwerty keymap online. Sorry, documentation seems to be only available in German: https://neo-layout.org/Benutzerhandbuch/Linux/

      • @marcuse1w
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        13 years ago

        Perfect, I have a look. German is fine for me

  • @marcuse1w
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    33 years ago

    Is there a view how Neo compares to other keyboard layout alternatives like Coleman or Workman or Dvorak ?

    • DessalinesA
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      33 years ago

      I switched to dvorak a few years ago. I think there is a site that compares them using finger distance traveled for common books.

    • @iancynkOP
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      33 years ago

      I guess with regard to ergonomics, dvorak might be better than neo, especially since it is optimized for english. I guess the most obvious difference are “Y” and “Z” which have extremely different frequencies in English and German. However, when we use a scale of 1-10 of ergonomics, qwertz/qwerty/azerty probably ranks a solid -5, while dvorak and neo are somewhere at 9 at 8.5… With regard to coding, neo beats dvorak by orders of magnitude, though. Maybe the optimum is then using dvorak with neo layers 3 and 4 ;-)

  • @Reaton
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    3
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    deleted by creator

    • @iancynkOP
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      43 years ago

      there rarely is a good time to learn a new layout. As I said, it takes a month of dedication and cursing your brain and me. On the bright side, I know one person who added layers 3 and 4 to their qwerty keyboard just in the middle of the project and did fine. Another person I know completely changed from qwertz to neo during his phd… so as long as you are not suffering from harsh deadlines, it is doable.

    • @iancynkOP
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      23 years ago

      Thanks for mentioning ADNW. I never heard of them and I am honestly puzzled. All their arguments seem to have been used in the development of Neo2 already and their website mentions how Neo2 uses a similar approach and the also call themselves something with “Neo” without anywhere talking about a) what’s the difference b) why are they not content with Neo2 c) why they also call themselves Neo-ish.

      No criticism that someone else builds an ergonomic keyboard, actually it is very cool that other people try to optimize it on their own. But then why not come up with a new name and compare it to what’s already there? (Comparing to QWERTZ any random distribution of keys should do better IMO).

      In a less aggressive tone: ADNW seems cool. I guess in quantities it should be definitely in the same order of optimization as Neo2 which is quite good. Neo2 wins for me with two arguments (but mostly because I already use it, I guess): It is already out there in any major linux distro and I get all the additional layers without any tweaking necessary. Neo2 has nicer esthetics and symmetry in addition to being ergonomic: Look at the vowels and umlauts, look at CH, CK. None of this would be convincing myself, so it is all about which one you think is prettier and more useful for you.

  • @xarvos
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    13 years ago

    I’ve just tried it out. It seems my keyboard doesn’t have Mod 4 (or it’s dead?) so I can’t use Level 4 and 6.

    • @iancynkOP
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      23 years ago

      do you have an ANSI or ISO keyboard? Major difference is the “<>|” key in the bottom left on the ISO keyboard. If you don’t have that, then you should still have the right Alt key (AltGr) that works as Mod4. However, neo works best on an ISO keyboard with that “<>|”-key